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1103rd Battery R.F.A at TRIMULGHERRY, Deccan


Guest Dawn C
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I am seeking some info on S.Q.M.S  G. Langley of the 1103 Battery please if someone might be able to assist or point me into the right direction. Interested in what theatres this battalion served as well as India.

 

Thank you kindly

 

Dawn

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There is a previous topic about 1103 Battery and it is stated that it was part of 21 Brigade RFA.

Reading the relevant page from the Long, Long Trail

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/batteries-and-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery/xxi-brigade-of-the-royal-field-artillery/

my reading is that  that the  1103 Battery was based at Hyderabad the entire war

Trimulgherry was a suburb of Secunderabad, which was the cantonment area of Hyderabad.

FIBIS Fibiwiki page Secunderabad

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Secunderabad

 

Cheers

Maureen

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Welcome to the Forum, Dawn.

 

1103 Battery was a later name for the 2nd Line Dorsetshire Battery based at Bridport, raised from around September 1914 and sent to India.

It was part of 45th (2nd Wessex) Division see - http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/45th-2nd-wessex-division/

Initially the battery was part of 2/3rd or 7th Wessex Brigade RFA.

The second incarnation of this battery was B/227 meaning it was "B" battery of 227th Brigade RFA.

"A" battery of 227th Brigade RFA (as 1102 Battery) was split up two provide extra guns for B/227 and C/227 (as 1104 Battery).

 

When 1104 Battery left the brigade for 216th, around April 1917, 1103 Bty was joined by 1098 Bty and 1105 Bty in 4th Combined Wessex Brigade.

This is a rather complicated history but it all took place within the confines of India and at no time did the battery enter a theatre of war. 

 

Is there a particular reason for asking your question? A service number would be handy if you have one.

An initial search has drawn a blank, so more information is required.

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Thank you both Maureene and  David Porter for your replies, l will review your suggested links and piece together a little bit more of the puzzle of my great uncle's unit's history. Unfortunately David all l have is an image of a document l located which l have transcribed which may be helpful

Roll of Individuals Entitled to the Territorial Medal

200045  A/W.O   LANGLEY, Richard   383 Sergeant

             Cl. 11                                      1/4th Border

 apart from that l came across an envelope addressed to my grand mother, which has proven invaluable in working out that her brother was in India,  Certainly have learnt much generally, through reading these forums of our brave men and women.            Lest we forget

 

Best wishes

Dawn

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Dawn,

 

At the moment I cannot see a link between the persons named in both of your posts.

Richard Langley has a medal index card on Ancestry which is free to view. Two addresses are given:

 

(1) 52, Rothay Road, Grimethorpe, Sheffield (post war medals)

(2) 6, Ansell Road, Sheffield (in 1941)

 

It looks like he only served in the 4th Border Regt., was awarded only a British War Medal, the Territorial Force War Medal and the Territorial Efficiency Medal (August 1919). For the criteria which determines each award please look at the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_War_Medal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_War_Medal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Efficiency_Medal

 

For the 1/4th Border Regiment look here - http://www.1914-1918.net/border.htm

 

It is extremely doubtful the G. Langley of 1103 Bty is the same person. So which one is your great uncle?

 

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A Medal Roll entry exists for 292948, Sdr./Q.M.S. LANGLEY, George Lewis, Royal Field Artillery.

His medal index card gives previous service numbers 80 and 905261 and subsequent number 742309, rank as WOII, and medal entitlement of British War Medal, Victory Medal, and Territorial Force War Medal.

The rank on the medal roll fits that given in post #1.

 

Edit to add: George Lewis Langley was born 14 July 1889 in the Wandsworth District (family tree on ancestry).

He had sisters Jane Eliza born 1873, Mary Ann born 1877, Susan born 1883, Sarah born 1891, and Kate born 1893 (family tree on ancestry).

 

Further Edit: The register of Royal Artillery Attestations (on findmypast) shows that he re-enlisted on 10.7.1921, service number 742309, Territorial, aged 32 years and 4 months, he gave his trade as a saddler and address as Hailsham. He enlisted for 1 year but served two additional periods of 4 years. There is also reference to emergency service dated 16.10.1940.

The register also gives a marriage to Alice May Matthews in Hailsham on 29.4.1919, and also gives details of a daughter Christina Alice M. Langley born 20.2.1921, and an address of 26, Gordon Road, Hailsham.

 

Further Edit: His date of birth of 14 July 1889, was taken from a family tree on ancestry. In the 1939 register the family were living at "Chota Ghuer", Station Road, Hailsham, Sussex, and the date of birth for George L. Langley was given, then, as 28 February 1891, and his occupation as groundsman public recreation ground (he was also an A.R.P. Warden for Hailsham Rural District Council). Alice M. Langley's date of birth was given as 19 October 1899. Daughter, Christina A.M.'s date of birth was given as 20 February 1921, and she was a grocery shop assistant.

 

Does any of this fit with your knowledge?

Edited by HarryBrook
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  • 1 year later...

David

 

Horribly out of my depth here but came across your comments above when trying to understand what was going on in Secunderabad in 1917. Can you help shed more light on the 4th Combined Wessex Bde pls.

 

Regards

Dave

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Dave,

 

These Combined Wessex Brigades RFA were short lived formations (mid 1917 only). As far as I can tell they brought together the batteries not serving in Mespot under a general title, but then adopted either their original brigade number or the most appropriate. This is the breakdown I have:

 

1st Combined Wessex Brigade, a.k.a 217th Brigade RFA
A = 1091 Bty
B = 1093 Bty
C = 79 (H) Bty

 

2nd Combined Wessex Brigade a.k.a 218th Brigade RFA
A = 1094 Bty
B = 1096 Bty
C = 1104 Bty (joined by May 1918)

 

3rd Combined Wessex Brigade a.k.a new 216th Brigade RFA
A = 1089 Bty
B = 1097 Bty
C = 1104 Bty (joined by April 1917, left by May 1918)

 

4th Combined Wessex Brigade a.k.a. new 227th Brigade RFA
A = 1098 Bty
B = 1103 Bty
C = 1105 (H) Bty

 

I think the batteries were designated A, B or C first before resorting to the numbers seen around August 1917.

As mentioned previously, this is a complicated period for which I don't have total clarity. 

If you can add to this I'd be most grateful.

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David

 

The following from the Indian Army Lists I have :

 

January 1915 : The 2nd Wessex not yet detailed. 1st Wessex I to IV Bde's

April 1915 : The 2nd Wessex is listed and the Bde appears as the 7th Wessex

July 1915 : The Bde is listed as the 2nd/III Wessex

January 1916 : Still as the 2nd/III Wessex

January 1917 : Still as the 2nd /III Wessex. the 2/6th Hants listed as A Bty, 2/1st Dorset as B Bty and 2/1st Wilts as C Bty

July 1917 : It is listed as the 227th Bde consisting of the 1103rd, 1105th and 1098th Bty's. 1105th Bty is shown in Aden.

July 1918 : Bty's are not broken out but officers are listed under the 227th Bde.

July 1919 : Bty's are not broken out but officers are listed under the 227th Bde.

 

Confused as to why the 1105th Bty should have been assigned as it was in Aden from August 1916.

 

Regards

Dave

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37 minutes ago, ddycher said:

 

Confused as to why the 1105th Bty should have been assigned as it was in Aden from August 1916.

 

Regards

Dave

 

I don't know the exact terminology, but I believe the military in Aden was "controlled" from India. It was as though Aden was regarded as part of India. This was certainly the situation pre WW1, and I believe it continued.

 

Cheers

Maureen

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Maureen

 

I think you're right. Trying to understand these combined Bde's. Why would a combined Bde be formed in India when one of its Bty's was in Aden. The other two I think were at Secunderabad.

 

David - From work I have on the Lahore Divisional Area I have a ref for the Combined Brigades being formed in December 1916. 

 

Regards

Dave

Edited by ddycher
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10 hours ago, ddycher said:

David - From work I have on the Lahore Divisional Area I have a ref for the Combined Brigades being formed in December 1916.

 

Thanks Dave,

 

Earlier than I thought, but getting definitive dates for these is proving very difficult.

 

10 hours ago, ddycher said:

Why would a combined Bde be formed in India when one of its Bty's was in Aden. The other two I think were at Secunderabad.

 

As far as I can tell 1098 Bty was at Kirkee for most of the time.

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David

 

Cant guarentee my data point is correct either. 1098 shows that my assumptions can be totally wrong. Thanks for correcting that. The date comes from 1/1st Sussex Bty moving from Lahore to Multan on the forming of the 1 Combined Home Counties Bde. Would happily be corrected on that as well.

 

Centred around the Lahore Divisional Area my research factors in three Bdes. The 1/1 Wessex Bde, the 2nd / III Wessex Bde, and the 1/1 Home Counties Bde's.  The 1/1 Wessex before going to Mesopotamia, the 1/1 Home Counties on its return to India from Mesopotamia and the 2nd/ III Wessex as I tried to make sense of what was happening at Trimulgherry on the forming of the 8th Reserve bn from the Depots of the Devons and Somerset then serving in Mesopotamia. Todate it covers the three locations of Lahore, Multan and Secunderabad.

 

Would I be right in thinking that by April 1917 and the forming of the Combined Bde's there would only have been one Bty at each location ? If so I show :

 

1/2nd Sussex at Lahore

1/1st Sussex at Multan

2/1st Dorsets at Secunderabad

 

I have very simple assumptions upto the forming of the Combined Bde's at which point I get completely lost.

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Regards

Dave

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1 hour ago, ddycher said:

The date comes from 1/1st Sussex Bty moving from Lahore to Multan on the forming of the 1 Combined Home Counties Bde. Would happily be corrected on that as well.

 

No, you are correct. I have the same thing but did not equate it with the move to Multan which I knew was before April 1917

 

1 hour ago, ddycher said:

Would I be right in thinking that by April 1917 and the forming of the Combined Bde's there would only have been one Bty at each location ? If so I show :

 

1/2nd Sussex at Lahore

1/1st Sussex at Multan

2/1st Dorsets at Secunderabad

 

It very much looks like just one battery in each location. Those three are correct and the 1st Combined Home Counties Brigade was:

 

1/1st Sussex Battery, A/220 then 1064 Bty at Multan
1/2nd Sussex Battery, B/220 at Lahore broken up
1/3rd Sussex Battery, C/220 then 1066 Bty at Delhi
1/4th Sussex Battery, A/221 then 1067 Bty at Ferozepore
1/5th Sussex Battery, B/221 then 1068 Bty at Ambala
1/6th Sussex Battery, C/221 at Dalhousie? broken up

 

However, there is more change when these batteries go to Mespot in October 1917 and a Combined Home Counties Depot is formed in Jubbulpore

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  • 3 years later...

Hi All,

 

Just researching my Great Grandfather George William Schulze. He was a Battery Sergeant Major with 227 Brigade, 1103 Battery during WW1. He was definitely in Secunderabad 1914 to 1921. I have a copy the Freemason membership register (St John's Lodge, Secunderabad) showing that he paid his membership 1916 - 1921.

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Welcome to the Forum Nick,

 

Looks like George enlisted in the Wiltshire Battery of 3rd Wessex Brigade RFA before the war. His initial number was 713 but he was renumbered, as were all serving Territorial artillery as of January 1, 1917, with 860686. He was only entitled to the British War Medal so would appear to have only served in India. 1103 Battery came out of the Bridport battery (B/227) of the same brigade, but I expect any transfer was due to his high rank. He was also entitled to the Territorial Force War Medal having agreed to serve overseas early in the war and did not earn a Star medal. Finally, he was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal in 1920. Apart from Trimulgherry he might have spent some time at Bangalore in 1916.

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Thanks for the reply David. Very interesting. I have a photo of him on his horse in India, also one of him after he retired wearing 5 medals. I believe he served in the 2nd Boer War as well.

The 4th Battalion, Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey) (4th Queen's) was a volunteer unit. He was born in Aldershot.  His father who emigrated from Germany in the mid 18 hundreds was a Military cap maker. While he was away Georges family was threatened for having a German name and had a policeman lodging with them for protection.

Medals:

1. Second Boar War, the bars, from the top are: South Africa 1902, South Africa 1901, Transvaal, Orange Free State and Cape Colony.

2. British War Medal WW1.

3. Territorial Force War Medal.

4. Territorial Force Efficiency Medal.

5. Meritorious Service Medal.

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Correction: George Schulze was born in Norwich and the family then moved to Aldershot.

 

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17 minutes ago, Nick Reeve said:

4. Territorial Force Efficiency Medal.

 

Yes, with pre-war service, war service counting double and continuing to 1921, then the 12 years required is easily achieved.

I think these awards appear in Army Orders. 

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