Marriage in Omsk by a Sergeant on the 1/9th Hants

[SteveWL]

My interest is in 355102 Sergeant George LILLINGTON of the 1/9th  Battalion Hampshire Regiment who served in Siberia supporting the White Russians against the Bolshevik forces.

He was married in Omsk 31 August 1919 to Ludmilla MARTINOFF who returned to the UK I believe through Scotland.

Are there any Army or Regiment records of marriages during this conflict?

It is said that George LILLINGTON was from the regiment who was reported missing and later listed as being held by the Bolsheviks.

It appears that his Service Papers were destroyed in the Burnt Papers so any information personal information or the source thereof would be most appreciated.   

 

[The Inspector]

Hi

There is a Ludmilla Lillington who was born 10th May 1897 died Worthing, Sussex Dec 1974...still looking

Regards Barry

George Robert Lillington, Acting CSM when awarded TF medal

Born 4th qtr 1895,Portsea Island, Hampshire died 12th May 1965, Droxford, Hampshire. Probate to Donald Robert Lillington and George Eric Lillington

Edited 13 September , 2016 by The Inspector

[ss002d6252]

According to the Birth, Death, Marriage index it looks like they had a child - Donald R Lillington - in June 1931 quarter, in Portsmouth.

Craig

[The Inspector]

Hi Craig and all

Looks like we are on track!

Regards Barry

 

[IPT]

She went back for a visit in 1955

 

 

[The Inspector]

Hi

She died 2nd Dec 1974 at 27 St.Botolph's Road, Worthing.West Sussex, son Donald Robert was born 2nd May 1931.

Barry

Edited 13 September , 2016 by The Inspector

[RaySearching]

George Robert Lillington was the 

son of Stephen Albert and Frances Emily Lillington

 

He died in 1965

 

 

Regards Ray

[RaySearching]

On 13/09/2016 at 19:51, SteveWL said:

He was married in Omsk 31 August 1919 to Ludmilla MARTINOFF who returned to the UK I believe through Scotland

 

A newspaper report

 Portsmouth Evening News 11 October 1955

gives her former name as Martinova ?

 

regards Ray

[MaureenE]

I cannot see this marriage listed on any of the Army Marriage Indexes. Should SteveWL wish to pursue a possible marriage record further, the GRO has some unindexed marriage records which it is possible to enquire about.

 

There is some information about these records on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Chaplains Returns http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Chaplains_Returns which reads

...are records of regimental marriages taking place between 1761 and 1924 that have never been indexed. As these additional records have never been indexed, they are not included in the data on findmypast or other websites. If you can provide the man's name and regiment, and approximate date the GRO will search their records. Email the GRO with GQ in the subject header, eg "GQ Regimental Marriage Registers", to avoid receiving an automated reply.^[4] There is a summary list of regiments and of dates covered for births and marriages in an Appendix to My ancestor was in the British Army by Michael J. and Christopher T. Watts (Society of Genealogists, 1995). ^[3]

 

 

1.  
2. Jump up ↑
3. ↑ ^{Jump up to: 3.0 3.1} Regimental Registers FamilySearch Wiki. 
4. Jump up ↑ Downes, Pam GRO Regimental Birth Indices 04-03-2005 British-Genealogy.com Forum.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[SteveWL]

I would like to thank all the people who responded and greatly contributed to my recent request and following the responses I have gained much more information on Sergeant George LILLINGTON No 355102.

I am still trying to find when he enlisted into the 1/9 Battalion Hampshire Regiment and if he was a prisoner on the Bolsheviks,.

Thank you

SteveWL 

[Marc Thompson]

Hi Steve,

 

355102 George LILLINGTON was a pre-war Territorial, original Regimental No. 208, so he was with 9th Hampshire at their formation in November 1911.

 

The List of Members of 1/9th Hampshire published in January 1920 following their return home lists George as follows:

'C' Company 355102 LILLINGTON Sergt

8 Panmure Place, Tollross, Edinburgh, Scotland

 

I am not able to provide any confirmation on whether he became a prisoner of the Bolsheviks - I have to date not encountered any evidence that anyone from the Battalion was captured. The War Diary of 355697 S A Green, 1/9th Hampshire does state that at this time the Bolsheviks were offering 5,000 Roubles for the first English soldier captured alive.

 

Out of interest the published obituary of Capt Hamilton Maurice Howgrave-Graham O.B.E., contains an interesting reference to some members of the Battalion being cut off:

 

"He was commissioned as Captain in the 1/9 Hampshire Regiment (T). After some time in India, his battalion was sent in 1918 to Siberia in an attempt to help White Russian resistance to the revolution. With scanty communications and little information as to what was happening elsewhere in Russia, this small force travelled across Siberia to the Ural Mountains. In the course of this Howgrave-Graham and 20 men were cut off by the Red army. They escaped in commandeered sledges across the snow-covered steppes and eventually rejoined their battalion at Omsk with no serious casualties. In the spring of 1919 an Anglo-Russian Brigade of 5,000 Siberian peasants was raised and of this force Howgrave-Graham was brigade major. Incidentally, he became one of the few Englishmen ever admitted to the Community of Cossacks as an Essaoul (captain). However, the rapid advance of the Red Army from European Russia soon led to the abandonment, probably just in time, of the whole venture, and after a long and perilous journey, the Hampshire battalion managed to get through to Vladivostok where they embarked for England."

 

Worthy of some further research.

 

Marc

[SteveWL]

Hi Marc

Thank you for your input

I note you are building a data base of those who served, I wondered if the following confirmation of the Marriage in OMSK of George Robert Lillington and Ludmilla Rodivovna Martinoff which took place on 31 Aug 1919. This confirmation is from the birth registration in Scotland of their son The birth certificates in Scotland show the location and date of the parents marriage.

SteveWL 

[pudsey63]

Hi Marc,

i am trying to find out more about the 1/9th Hampshire Regiment and was interested in your reference to a List of Members. In particular I am looking for any men with a connection to the Petersfield area. Are you able to help?  Anything would be much appreciated. 

Judith

Edited 19 October , 2017 by pudsey63

[Dever Mayfly]

I have a photograph of George Lillington and the others who were captured by the Bolsheviks on 6th January 1920.  One other Hampshire Battalion soldier was with them, Private James.  Ludmilla was not with George when he was captured; I am trying to find out whether he gave up his place on the Monteagle  for her, or whether she escaped from Russia some other way.  Does anyone have a record of how many Hampshire Battalion soldiers married Russian girls; I know that it was a big issue for the Americans in Vladivostok?

 

[MaureenE]

The Americans decided to allow their soldiers to marry Russians, see my previous post

 

(Edit: After writing the above, I checked the link, but it wouldn't open.  This is the archived link https://web.archive.org/web/20170222031309/http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Bolsheviks-Polar-Bears.pdf . The previous topic however, is also about marriage in Russia.}

 

I have not come across any documentation as to what the British Army attitude was.  There just seem to be the odd mention of British Soldiers who married in Russia.

5 hours ago, Dever Mayfly said:

I have a photograph of George Lillington and the others who were captured by the Bolsheviks on 6th January 1920.  One other Hampshire Battalion soldier was with them, Private James.  

It would be interesting to see the photograph, are you able to post it?

 

Cheers

Maureen

Edited 8 November , 2017 by Maureene

[wrightdw]

Sgt. Lillington was one of 15 British soldiers taken prisoner on 7th January 1920 when the British Military Mission train was overrun near Krasnoyarsk. One of those taken prisoner was Capt. Brian Horrocks, Middlesex Regiment who would go on to command XXX Corps during Operations Market Garden and was played by Edward Fox in the movie 'A Bridge Too Far'.

 

At least three of those taken prisoner in the same incident were Canadian, two serving with CSEF and the other with RASC.

 

They were all held in Moscow as POW's until release in October 1920. Horrocks had been taken POW in 1914 so had the unfortunate distinction of being a 'double POW'. In fact he spent nearly 5 years as a POW between 1914-20.

[Marc Thompson]

On 10/19/2017 at 19:07, pudsey63 said:

Hi Marc,

i am trying to find out more about the 1/9th Hampshire Regiment and was interested in your reference to a List of Members. In particular I am looking for any men with a connection to the Petersfield area. Are you able to help?  Anything would be much appreciated. 

Judith

 

Judith,

 

Here you go:

BONIFACE C. Lieut. 10 St. Peters Road, Petersfield

"A" Company

355078 TRIBE E. P. CSM 24 Swan Street, Petersfield

355083 MARRINER H. L/Cpl Buriton, Petersfield

355421 JOHNSON R. Pte Sussex Road, Petersfield

"B" Company

355156 CREEDON M. CSM Dragon Street, Petersfield

 

There are a fair few from East and West Meon as well but I wasn't sure if you wanted these?

 

Marc

Edited 16 November , 2017 by Marc Thompson

[Marc Thompson]

On 11/7/2017 at 21:56, Dever Mayfly said:

I have a photograph of George Lillington and the others who were captured by the Bolsheviks on 6th January 1920.  One other Hampshire Battalion soldier was with them, Private James.  Ludmilla was not with George when he was captured; I am trying to find out whether he gave up his place on the Monteagle  for her, or whether she escaped from Russia some other way.  Does anyone have a record of how many Hampshire Battalion soldiers married Russian girls; I know that it was a big issue for the Americans in Vladivostok?

 

 

Dever,

 

Would love a copy of this photograph if at all possible?

 

Thanks

Marc

[pudsey63]

Marc, thank you very much for those names. I help out at the local museum and am gathering information ahead of the Armistice commemorations next year. There is an old news article expressing regret that not all the local men had returned by the time of the celebrations in the summer of 1919. To have their names is amazing. 

If you could send the East/West Meon names as well I'd be grateful as they may still have descendants in the area. Is there a Gandy/Gander by any chance?

 

Edited 23 November , 2017 by pudsey63

[george57l]

On 11/9/2017 at 15:25, wrightdw said:

One of those taken prisoner was Capt. Brian Horrocks, Middlesex Regiment

 

My father (Robert Lillington's son) once told me he thought there was a diary kept by Brian Horrocks (I'm pretty sure that was the name he said, but I'd forgotten until I read it here) while they were Russian prisoners, which was smuggled out by being hidden inside a football when they - inc. my grandfather among others - were all released and handed over.

My father believed the diary was in the archives at the Manchester University John Rylands Library.

Maybe this will be of assistance to someone... ?

Edited 7 March , 2018 by george57l

[Dever Mayfly]

The Imperial War Museum oral history has a transcript of an interview with Private Shobbrock of the 1st/9th Hampshires.  On the 7th reel, he explains that the British soldiers were so frightened of catching a STD that they avoided the local girls. This may account for the difference between the 500 soldiers of the American Expeditionary Force, who reportedly married Russian women.  Does any member know of a British soldier in Siberia, other than Sgt Lillington, who married a girl in Omsk or Vladivostok?

[Dever Mayfly]

I have now checked with the List of Members of the 9th Battalion Hampshire Regiment dated January 1920 which is in one of the two boxes of papers in the Regimental Museum in Winchester.  There is no mention of Private Shobbrock in any of the four companies.  The oral evidence in the IWM tapes certainly seems convincing, so this is a bit of a conundrum.  I found the name of a Private Claude Shobbrock of the Labour Corps listed in the National Archives and perhaps this is our man, but can anyone shed further light on this mystery?

[MaureenE]

Perhaps, if he doesn't comment on your post here,  you could contact, by PM,   wrightdw, post 16 above, who is the author of the book  Churchill's Secret War with Lenin: British and Commonwealth Military Intervention in the Russian Civil War 1918-20.

 

Cheers

Maureen

[Ann Ellis]

Does anyone still read this thread?  I am the Grandaughter of George Robert Lillington and Ludmilla Martinov.

[MaureenE]

Do you have any family information which you could tell us about your grandfather in Russia, and your grandparents' marriage and later departure from Russia?

 

Cheers

Maureen