In From the Cold - a major milestone reached

[John_Hartley]

One of the projects undertaken by Chris Harley and a team of volunteers from the In From The Cold Project has been to find the actual burial place of men and women who died at home. These are people already commemorated by CWGC on memorials to the missing in the UK or are those whose names we are submitting to the Commission as previously uncommemorated but also died at home.

 

The milestone is that Chris and his team have just had their 1000th grave find accepted by CWGC. That's one thousand men and women who will now be commemorated at their gravesite, rather than a distant memorial wall. In many cases, these have been unmarked graves which, over time, will have an official CWGC headstone. Most "finds" have been in the UK and Ireland but the team has also located them across the world - Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and India. The work goes on and CWGC are currently processing another 230 "finds"

 

Often requiring dogged detective work, it really is a remarkable achievement.

 

NOT FORGOTTEN

 

John

[SteveMarsdin]

Well done to you all ! You and Terry Denham were a great help to me in getting Frank Keogh recognised.

 

Steve

 

 

[Phil Evans]

Congratulations to the team.

 

Add to that, Chris and other members of the team have helped me locate the graves of several of my own cases.

 

Phil

[MelPack]

Another fantastic achievement!

 

I haven't put my hat back on since saluting the last achievement  - I have now and raise it yet again !

 

[stevem49]

Amazing job Chris (and your little team of helpers)

[KevinBattle]

Please accept a very well deserved pat on the back to all concerned.

Am I correct in thinking that the CWGC are not contesting the IFTC submissions?

I have the feeling (at least lately) that it's more pushing at an open door.

 

There are frequent Press articles appealing via the CWGC for relatives of a now identified Unknown to come forward when a reburial is proposed.

There seem to be a wealth of volunteers on a range of websites that devote much of their time to trying to trace "unallocated" airmen, service personnel etc so that the aircraft, crash site and identification at least of crew names (if not individually) and it seems a shame that this effort isn't under some umbrella such as IFTC to harness and assist CWGC/JCCC in putting forward potential identities to graves currently marked as "Known Unto God" etc.

 

Be that as it may, hearty congratulations to all IFTC members on behalf of us and, more importantly, to the memory of those you have rescued from obscurity.

[John_Hartley]

28 minutes ago, KevinBattle said:

Am I correct in thinking that the CWGC are not contesting the IFTC submissions?

 

I wouldnt really think of the process as "contesting" or otherwise, Kevin. We're obviously now talking about IFCP's main project to find the uncommemorated, rather than Chris' parallel project. It's always been a matter of whether the submission met the criteria or not. As I think most folk, who keep their eye on this part of the forum, know the actual assessment of a submission is carried out by the National Army Museum, on behalf of CWGC. The NAM is rightly rigorous in assessing the evidence but, generally speaking, the criteria are straightforward. If the Project is rigorous in preparing the submission (as we are), then cases are likely to sail through. There are rare occasions where we think we've made the case about a post discharge death but the NAM takes a different view - I can think of one where, in my heart of hearts, I know the man should be commemorated but the link between cause of death and cause of discharge is not sufficiently strong. It pains me that we will probably never find further evidence to make the case .

 

John

[KevinBattle]

Yes, that's what I was trying to say (badly) is that IFTC know the criteria to satisfy the rigorous procedure by NAM and do your best to ensure compliance and thus acceptance.

 

I have found the CWGC to be fair and whenever I communicate with them they are very helpful, as long as you know the rules.

I am still learning but ever hopeful that ones that may have slipped the net can still be brought forward.

I have circumstantial evidence that 3 airmen shot down on 14 May 1940 may be "Unknowns" in Hotton War Cemetery.

3 men from their Squadron have just been identified and I'm hoping that as part of the process to identify they also reviewed other unknown airmen graves in order to eliminate them. But that's why I asked about an umbrella organisation of unpaid enthusiasts.

[chrisharley9]

I want to pass on my thanks to all those who have helped IFCP find so many graves. It has been a very long haul & I did not expect so many results when I took on this job some 8 years ago. Thank you everyone.

[KevinBattle]

Chris, it's YOU (and all the other IFCP workers who have organised and ensured that those forgotten for whatever reason have been duly recognised.

It must have been an often thankless task and only sheer hard work and bloody mindedness that has achieved so much.

Seeing them on the GWF website ensures that relatives and others can trace them more easily, so for John, yourself and so many others, WELL DONE!

If it's some consolation, there are many here who relish the challenge that some of these have been and to see how tiny clues can be picked up and the resultant unravelling of a mystery, is one of the attractions of the GWF site - "who's the chap/ess today that we need to find?" type of thing

... and on to the next 1,000!

[MelPack]

I second Kevin's comments.

 

I would only add that it is completely refreshing that all the hours of hard graft, painstaking research and sheer bloody mindedness to resolve a case are all undertaken quietly and without being tainted by glory hunting and grandstanding.

 

Well done folks - the unsung but trues heroes of WW1 research.

[Andy Wade]

I would like to echo all the comments made so far.

We have had two people out of four accepted (the two which weren't accepted didn't have sufficient convincing evidence). We have another man in for consideration with the M.O.D. at the moment and it's looking encouraging that he will be accepted. If it hadn't been for the I.F.C.P., then we would never have thought to even suggest these men for consideration in the first place. And if we hadn't been for this forum we wouldn't have known about the I.F.C.P.

 

Many thanks chaps and congratulations on such a marvellous result..

[Stuart T]

<  but the link between cause of death and cause of discharge is not sufficiently strong >

I am not sure whether I understand this right but what might be made of the following?

A Royal Marine served from 1905 to 1922, was mobilized in 1938, signed on for a year and evidently went through the whole Second World War.  He died "whilst the balance of his mind was disturbed" on 2 July 1945, having been depressed since being demobilized from his job as a Musketry Instructor "two or three months ago".  He was officially a Marine Pensioner when he died.

I assume the link between death and discharge mentioned above was probably a physical condition but what do you think the powers that be would make of a request to have this man commemorated by the CWGC?

As an aside, I also know of a Naval rating who committed suicide by inhalation of coal gas fumes in 1921, having served throughout the First World War.  He has recently been added by the CWGC but in contrast was still serving.

[John_Hartley]

Mental illness cases are always trickier because they are usually less clear cut.

 

In this case, you would need to start with documentary evidence that there was a mental health issue that caused his discharge from the service. Moreover, there would need to be some evidence that the illness was caused or aggravated by war service. Once those two elements were established, the case to present to CWGC would be that his illness continued until he died and, as such, there was clear link between cause of discharge and cause of death. From the wording you give, I'm presuming that he killed himself?

[Bernard_Lewis]

Well done all concerned!

 

Bernard

[Stuart T]

J-H,

Yes, he did, under pressure from a policeman and MP.  It was a newspaper report on the inquest that provided the details surrounding his death.  However, what his widow said was that he became depressed after demob - not that he suffered mental health problems during service.  For a man that served in the Aegean, Ireland and North Russia, was at Jutland and sunk two months later, it is such a shame that he died so soon after VE Day.

I presume he was demobbed because of his age and simply that the emergency was over.

Edited 4 March , 2017 by Stuart T

[John_Hartley]

Stuart

 

My apologies for not returning to your posts sooner. I'm afraid the further details you give confirm he is not going to be eligible for commemoration - there being no link between cause of discharge and cause of death.

 

John

[Stuart T]

Fully understood.  Conversely, I find it very difficult comprehending the inclusion of some casualties (maybe similar to the above) who died at the very limit of the date range for WW1 who ARE commemorated simply because they were still in service.  I always understood that the extended dates were to cover men dying of wounds and disease, not felo de se in service.  Could someone be commemorated if he didn't even join up until after the Armistice?

[CGM]

11th November 1918 was the date when fighting was to cease, and is known as Armistice Day. (Most, but not all fighting did stop on this day.)

 

However, the official date on which the British Government declared the war to be at an end was 31st August 1921, with the "Termination of the Present War Act of 1918", and this is therefore the final CWGC Commemoration date.

 

(It was possible that fighting could have broken out again at any time until the "Termination of the Present War Act of 1918").

 

All those serving at the time of their death, if it occurred between the above dates, are automatically eligible for commemoration, whatever the cause of their death might have been. 

 

CGM 

Edited 29 March , 2017 by CGM

[John_Hartley]

4 hours ago, Stuart T said:

Could someone be commemorated if he didn't even join up until after the Armistice?

Yes.

 

You could, for instance, have someone who joined up in January 1919, only to die of the flu pandemic a month later. He gets  commemorated. Whereas, a man who discharged due to wounds received in November 1918, dies in late 1921 and doesnt. It's what happens when you have rules.