Manxman5 Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 I am doing research on a family tree in preparation for an 80th birthday party, and have found a medal index card for a Mr Ernest Hardman Taylor. In the Corps column there is two Corps listed, the first one is Lpool. R. which I assume to be the Liverpool Regiment? He is listed here as Pte, a Private I assume? With the regimental Number being 8975. The second corps listed is A.S.C. which the Army Service Corps I believe.. Here though, Mr Taylor is listed a Lt a Lieutenant. So my question is how normal is it for a Private to jump all through the ranks to a lieutenant? Also can anyone shed any further light on Ernest Hardman Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 (edited) Fairly common for Privates to get a commission to 2nd Lt. He will have a record at The National Archives that will shed more light on his career. His notice of commission to temp 2nd Lt as of the 26th Oct 1916 in the London Gazette Edited 24 August , 2016 by Derek Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 (edited) Hi Manxman, I'm definitely not saying this is definitively your man, as similarly-initialled/named officers can often be hard to differentiate easily, but perhaps interesting to consider (and more A.S.C. knowledgeable others on GWF may well be able to fill in more detail, correct and/or steer you accordingly!) ... "THE ARMY SERVICE CORPS ... Temp. 2nd Lt. E. H. Taylor is dismissed the Service by sentence of a General Court- Martial. 3rd Dec.1917." London Gazette, 11 February 1918 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30519/supplement/1904 From his MIC I have just noted that "your" Ernest Hardman Taylor was on a "Suspense List/59 as a 2nd Lt". I am not exactly familiar Suspense Lists but believe they were indicative of some military sanction for something colourful like a GCM or civil conviction etc.! Medals would not be issued or could be forfeited/withdrawn/demanded back! - I am sure GWF members may be able to enlighten us both in more detail on this sub-topic. Edited 24 August , 2016 by Matlock1418 addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 It would explain why there's no medal roll references numbers on the Medal Index Card.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxman5 Posted 24 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2016 Thank you Derek for your initial response. Wow, Matlock1418 that's a really interesting find hopefully I can try and search more or get help finding if there in any records for this or why this happened! How interesting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 Manxman, In advance of what Matlock has posted a Temporary Second Lieutenant E Taylor ASC was sentenced by a court martial at Rouen on 20 November 1917. The crime was 'Absence' - sentence was 'Dismissal. That is assuming that this E or E H Taylor is 'your' E H Taylor - the ASC was a vast corps and two E H Taylor's would not be uncommon. I'd suggest his service file is here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1130386 His promotion was unlikely to be instant - he would have received some officer training at an Officer Cadet Battalion (OCB) and possibly some additional ASC trade training. Exact details will be in his file above but will require a visit to Kew or the hiring of a researcher. Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRC Kevin Posted 26 August , 2016 Share Posted 26 August , 2016 25% of the ORs who went out to France in February 1915 with 1/6th King's Liverpool were commissioned- the vast majority holding the rank of Rifleman when they went to cadet school, a number of whom came straight back to the battalion. There were even some in 1915 who went from Rifleman one day, to 2Lt in the battalion the next, without even going to cadet school, though they did move to a different company. (This battalion would be an extreme example as pre-January 1915, enlistment was restricted to men from the professional classes.) If those who were killed, or whose wounds or illness prevented further active service are taken out of the equation, the percentage is nearer 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 August , 2016 Share Posted 26 August , 2016 I am not up in sentences for naughty officers but surely he would have been "cashiered" not "dismissed"? And one imagines that he would promptly be held to serve as a private soldier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 26 August , 2016 Share Posted 26 August , 2016 (edited) David, I've come across a few officer who were discharged as a result of courts martial - some were 'cashiered' and some were 'dismissed'. I presume 'cashiered' was a public spectacle with stripping of rank and 'dismissal' was done more quietly to avoid embarrassment to the Army. You had me worried for a second that 'dismissal' was in fact dismissal of the case (and I'd slandered an officer by mistake) but the ledgers refer to 'acquittal' on that count. The limited number of cases I had encountered I had presumed that a set of conscription papers would be immediately placed in the post but this was not always the case. This may possibly have been due to an undesirability for that officer to serve in any capacity or there may have been an implied opportunity for an ex-officer to redeem himself through service in the ranks - as some did successfully. One ex officer who was not eligible for further service on account of nationality was told that rejoining was at his discretion but that there was no hope of redeeming the situation. Again based on half a dozen or so cases so not an authoritative response though. Regards Colin Edited 26 August , 2016 by Colin W Taylor Re-read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 August , 2016 Share Posted 27 August , 2016 There is a forum discussion here on Cashiered vs Dismissed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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