Rob Chester Posted 23 August , 2016 Share Posted 23 August , 2016 Can anyone identify this badge? Any help would be much appreciated. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 It looks as if it has something (cloth circle?) behind it. Is there any more of the picture available with other possible distinguishing marks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 Messing with the tones to try and bring out detail How about something like 14th(Kings) Hussars? (pre 1915) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 August , 2016 Share Posted 24 August , 2016 (edited) Personally I am fairly sure that it is neither, a regular army, nor Territorial Force badge. It has the look of either, a college OTC unit, or an early VTC badge. Edited 24 August , 2016 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Chester Posted 24 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 August , 2016 Here is the full image - College OTC sounds likely he is VERY young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 August , 2016 Share Posted 25 August , 2016 (edited) Looks like a 1903 Pattern Web belt which should give you an "not earlier than" date. Off the top of my head I cannot remember when it was introduced - need to check Karkeeweb Chris The Bandolier Equipment Pattern 1903 Web waist belt replaced the leather Belt in List of Changes entry §19146, dated 30 April 1917 (source http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1903/components/1903_belts_straps.html) Edited 25 August , 2016 by 4thGordons adding information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 25 August , 2016 Share Posted 25 August , 2016 He appears to have a shoulder title - can that be enlarged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 25 August , 2016 Share Posted 25 August , 2016 I was going to suggest the Duke of Lancaster's Yeomanry ..but you're right, he looks quite young..and the badge seems to have a backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 August , 2016 Share Posted 25 August , 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Staffsyeoman said: I was going to suggest the Duke of Lancaster's Yeomanry ..but you're right, he looks quite young..and the badge seems to have a backing. The coronet of the DoLY stands proud as do the scroll ends on either side, whereas the sitters badge is clearly almost perfectly circular. An examination of WW1 college OTC ('junior division', which later became the CCF) badges should throw up the one concerned. Edited 25 August , 2016 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 25 August , 2016 Share Posted 25 August , 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: The coronet of the DoLY stands proud as do the scroll ends on either side, whereas the sitters badge is clearly almost perfectly circular. An examination of WW1 college OTC ('junior division', which later became the CCF) badges should throw up the one concerned. Whenever I try to identify a badge you are always quick to shoot me down. I have been collecting cap badges since 1971. I would like to think I am more gracious in my commentary. This badge - whatever it is - clearly has a backing which makes it look circular. Edited 25 August , 2016 by Staffsyeoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 25 August , 2016 Share Posted 25 August , 2016 (edited) The flat straight bottom of the badge coupled with some sort of coronet shape design does not match any Junior Division OTC badge that I recognise - although there is a passing resemblance to King Alfred's Wantage. There are a number of cadet corps badges that are not in the reference books or as suggested VTC. Edited 25 August , 2016 by max7474 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 26 August , 2016 Share Posted 26 August , 2016 22 hours ago, 4thGordons said: Looks like a 1903 Pattern Web belt which should give you an "not earlier than" date. Off the top of my head I cannot remember when it was introduced - need to check Karkeeweb Chris The Bandolier Equipment Pattern 1903 Web waist belt replaced the leather Belt in List of Changes entry §19146, dated 30 April 1917 (source http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1903/components/1903_belts_straps.html) The belt in the picture is the narrower version of the 1908 belt, commonly associated with VTC/OTC. Can be seen near the bottom of: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1908/1908_belts.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 August , 2016 Share Posted 26 August , 2016 (edited) On 8/25/2016 at 16:46, Staffsyeoman said: Whenever I try to identify a badge you are always quick to shoot me down. I have been collecting cap badges since 1971. I would like to think I am more gracious in my commentary. This badge - whatever it is - clearly has a backing which makes it look circular. I was not aware of ever having 'shot you down' Staffsyeoman and if I have given that impression then I am sorry for it. I made the comment purely as I saw it as part of a process of elimination that we all usually participate in. I don't doubt your credentials as a collector. No doubt others will have their own take on what they see and what badge they think it might be. Personally I ruled out yeomanry via a combination of badge shape, the lack of a bandolier (which even a youngster would be likely to wear) and the fact that for calls on foot a trumpet would be more usual than a bugle. Edited 27 August , 2016 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 August , 2016 Share Posted 26 August , 2016 14 hours ago, max7474 said: The flat straight bottom of the badge coupled with some sort of coronet shape design does not match any Junior Division OTC badge that I recognise - although there is a passing resemblance to King Alfred's Wantage. There are a number of cadet corps badges that are not in the reference books or as suggested VTC. Yes, I think if he is not a college cadet then a young bugler for a VTC unit seems the most likely scenario. Most VTC units were made up of very old and very young until the Derby scheme took effect and military age young men joined awaiting their call up. Even after that it seems possible that some units retained young buglers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 August , 2016 Share Posted 30 August , 2016 (edited) On 24/08/2016 at 21:23, Rob Chester said: Here is the full image - College OTC sounds likely he is VERY young. Rob, do you know if there is any connection with Staffordshire and Lichfield in particular? I ask this because having now had the chance to look through some OTC/CCF badges in the second volume of the Kipling and King collectors books, I have found a surprisingly large number of college cap badges that were almost perfectly circular. One in particular that might fit the bill is the Grammar School of King Edward VI, Lichfield. The school had been in existence for some years when WW1 began and there was certainly a CCF given the existence of two variations of cap badge (the second departed from the circular shape and so was probably later than WW1). A key point is that the badge included a coronet set horizontally just below the top of the badge, which seems to match your photo, although blurring makes it impossible to be sure. A close up view of the shoulder title would help a great deal, as mentioned above. The Grammar School of King Edward VI, Lichfield, cap badge was a perfectly circular strap with the schools title (exactly as above) inscribed in it. Within the strap is the shield with arms of King Edward VI leaving small voids at the curves and, set at the top, within the strap is a coronet, presumably of the Plantagenets. This was the first pattern badge as used in WW1, before the Junior Division became the CCF. Lichfield had a very strong military presence due to it being the only city with two, scarlet clad, line infantry regiments co-locating in the same depot, that is the North and South Staffordshire regiments, each with their two regular battalions, special reserves and Territorial Force units. The city must have been teeming with knaki drab and the cadets were probably well supported. Edited 7 September , 2016 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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