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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Concentration from small cemetery near High Wood


Mark Hone

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I am putting the finishing touches to our detailed roll of honour entry for Private Clifford Morris of 1st Cameron Highlanders, who was killed in a German artillery bombardment of his unit's positions at Bazentin-Le-Petit on 16th August 1916 aged 19. CWGC records that his body was relocated to Caterpillar Valley , along with several others, from 57c.s.2.c.6.4. Am I right in thinking that this was the location of a small battlefield cemetery, as suggested on an old thread I started about Clifford Morris, before the CWGC put the concentration records online? 

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6 hours ago, Mark Hone said:

I am putting the finishing touches to our detailed roll of honour entry for Private Clifford Morris of 1st Cameron Highlanders, who was killed in a German artillery bombardment of his unit's positions at Bazentin-Le-Petit on 16th August 1916 aged 19. CWGC records that his body was relocated to Caterpillar Valley , along with several others, from 57c.s.2.c.6.4. Am I right in thinking that this was the location of a small battlefield cemetery, as suggested on an old thread I started about Clifford Morris, before the CWGC put the concentration records online? 

Thanks Mark, I just found a request from our government in South Africa stating that all family members of those who died(SS MENDI)must avail themselves for next year's commemoration to receive thier medals. This is another chapter that also shows that the message is getting clear. The question is how many of those families are aware of the recent call. I will ley members of the forum know on Thursday when I come back from their offices in Pretoria(South Africa). My request to them is to find the bodies and bring them back home. Thanks for the good work guys.

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I'm sorry but I'm not sure what this reply has to do with my original post and the topic of this thread. 

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Mark

There are body density maps that show 120 men retrieved from 57c.S.2.c. The map I've seen online also shows the smaller cemeteries scattered around the area and used during the war, ie the ones closed down post-concentration.

honemap2.jpg

 

I see from your other posts on Morris that Highlander Cemetery and Black Watch Cemetery were suggested but these are marked on the BD map and are about 1500 yards too far east to be related to 57c.s.2.c.6.4. Others shown on the BD map near High Wood are; London & Clarkes's Dump.

 

The above BD map doesn't show any cemetery in 57c.S.2.c, whether there are other BD maps I don't know.

 

Earlier 1916 maps show an odd sort of floating section of trench numbered 6278 slightly to the north, more like 57c.s.2.c.6.7. I assume it's a trench, most of the early 1916 maps on McMaster show the same 6278 trench and then it disappears off the maps by July ish.

honemap.jpg

 

1918 maps show quite a network of trenches all over square 2.c but just missing s.2.c.6.4

 

Possibly trench 6278 was used for burials and the GRU got the map ref slightly wrong, not much in the landscape to gauge your location from. I think the two map refs are only 150 yards apart.

 

Have you tried looking at more concentration sheets from Caterpillar Valley to see how many men came from 57c.s.2.c.6.4. in total and whether any came from within 200 yards of that map ref. If there were 120 men from that square did they all come from one map ref or did they form groups?

TEW

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I believe that burials recorded on the maps exclude those in organised cemeteries, but that is not to say that there wasn't also a small cemetery in S.2.c. as well. If he was moved from one of the smaller organised cemeteries to Caterpillar Valley, there is a possibility that it may have been Martinpuich Road Cemetery, but I have not been able to locate its position.

 

Phil

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Thanks for these detailed and thought-provoking replies. Morris doesn't appear to have died of wounds in an Aid Post or similar as a friend describes seeing his dead body lying on the fire step.

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The body density maps do not show the number of bodies FOUND at a square. The BD maps were made by the GRU staff before the clearance began in early 1919 and the blue figures showed the number of bodies REGISTERED in each square. Bodies buried in registered cemeteries, even small ones that were concentrated, are not shown on these maps. Despite the 125 bodies registered in 57C S2 c 319 bodies from this square were brought in to Caterpillar Valley Cemetery. The big difference between Registered bodies and bodies found can be explained by a combination of unburied bodies, unregistered burials and bodies removed from registered cemeteries in this square.

Peter

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Peter,

Thanks for that, certainly makes sense that while looking for those known to be buried in square 57C S2 c they would come across more. Presumably the GRU would have paperwork detailing names, numbers and positions for the 120 men. Perhaps the other 199 form the bulk of the UBS in Caterpillar Valley.

 

I thought the main value of the BD map for this topic is that while it shows the other smaller and cleared cemeteries eg Blackwatch, Clarke's Dump it does not indicate any such small cemetery in 57C S2 c. Mark was looking for information regarding a 'Concentration from small cemetery near High Wood' with a map ref of 57c.s.2.c.6.4. given. Morris is a concentration from that grid ref but is not from a cemetery.

 

I may look later at all the concentrations for Caterpillar Valley and see how many have the same originating grid ref and whether they are formed in groups.

TEW

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Thanks Peter for going the extra mile from my very much abridged version.

 

TEW, I have checked the CEFSG listings, but unfortunately Caterpillar Valley COG-BR does not appear to be there, so it looks like the hard way.

 

Phil

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Phil, not seen the CEFSG listing before, another forum member put up a link to cog-binders which I've used in the past.

 

I have actually just downloaded all the concentration sheets for Caterpillar Valley, 162 sheets and no, not by the tedious method!! Not sure if anyone else wants access, I was just going to check the sheets for the grid ref in the OP.

 

TEW

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