Senior officers moved behind lines for burial

[Mark Hone]

On another thread it was established that Lt Col TH Boardman of 8th Royal Inniskillings died at an Aid Post at Potijze Chateau on 5th August 1917 but was then buried at Brandhoek New Military Cemetery ( close to Noel Chavasse). I am wondering if it was common practice to move the bodies of more senior officers back down the casualty evacuation chain for burial. I note that two ORs of the battalion killed on the same day are buried at Potijze.

Sorry if this question has been dealt with before but I couldn't find a reference. 

[KevinBattle]

Mark, I'm sure others more learned will answer more accurately, and I haven't looked for the other topic, but how certain is it that Lt Col Boardman died AT the FAP in Potijze?

The CWGC Cemetery information might indicate that he was taken to a Field Ambulance or CCS near Brandhoek where he then died...

Quote

Historical Information

During the First World War, Brandhoek was within the area comparatively safe from shell fire, which extended beyond Vlamertinghe Church. Field ambulances were posted there continuously. Until July 1917 burials had been made in the Military Cemetery, but the arrival of the 32nd, 3rd Australian and 44th Casualty Clearing Stations in preparation for the new Allied offensive launched that month made it necessary to open the New Military Cemetery, followed in August by the New Military Cemetery No 3. 

 

[BJanman]

I recently did some research into the NZ Medical Corps during the Battle of Flers-Courcelette, and had similar thoughts.

 

My research was mainly focused on Maj A A Martin, who previously served in the RAMC.  He was fatally wounded at the Aid Post of Capt G V Bogle, 1st Bn NZ Rifle Brigade.  Capt Bogle was KIA at his Aid Post in the afternoon of 16th September 1916, and his body was taken down to the ADS at the Quarry, Montauban in the afternoon of the 17th for burial in the cemetery there.  There was a blockage between the Aid Post and the ADS, and many of the stretcher-bearers were wounded but three were KIA - two were buried ‘in the field’ - their bodies were later exhumed and reburied next to each other in Caterpillar Valley Cemetery.  The third is commemorated on the Caterpillar Valley Memorial to the Missing.

 

I am puzzled as to why Capt Bogle’s body was kept at the Aid Post for 24 hours-ish and not buried ‘in the field’, especially as the OR’s were.  Why was he taken back whilst the OR’s were not?   I suppose there is an argument that the medical services were looking after one of their own, but the OR’s were also ‘their own’ so I’m not convinced that is the answer.  

 

Barbara

[Mark Hone]

Thanks. Kevin, the 8th Inniskillings War Diary clearly states that Colonel Boardman died at the Potijze Aid Post at 12-45 am on 5th August 1917. This is supported by the story in his obituary that he was accompanied at the end by an officer of his battalion, a former pupil of his at Christ's Hospital School, who had joined up to serve with him. This was Captain Arthur Hodder Robbins, who was himself killed on 21st March 1918. It seems unlikely that he would have gone back to a CCS several miles away, even with his wounded CO, while his men were in the front line. Barbara, thank you for relating that interesting further example. 

[TEW]

Perhaps they felt Potijze was more likely to fall into enemy hands at some stage of the war than Brandhoek. Maybe they were also aware that cemeteries closer to the front line were sometimes shelled and graves damaged.

TEW

[Derek Black]

20 minutes ago, TEW said:

Perhaps they felt Potijze was more likely to fall into enemy hands at some stage of the war than Brandhoek. Maybe they were also aware that cemeteries closer to the front line were sometimes shelled and graves damaged.

TEW

So why not do it for all their dead?
They'd be busy enough without the extra work involved in moving the dead further than necessary.

[TEW]

I don't claim to know the answer that Mark's looking for, my suggestion is just an idea. As to why for Boardman and not for all men; mainly because he was a Lt. Col. and CO of the battalion and out of reverence and respect his officers had his body moved back to a burial place out of shell range.

 

I haven't looked at the evacuation process for this division and time frame from the RAP at Potijze to the CCS at Brandhoek. I suspect there was a continuous flow of lorries, motor ambulances, wagons, cars perhaps even tramways and light railways for part of the route. Finding space for one (more important than everyone else) body would not be difficult.

 

Preferential treatment for a senior officer perhaps?

 

TEW

[kenf48]

I don't know the answer either, and I doubt there is one beyond, as cited in both examples above, the social attitudes of the time to rank and class.  There are many examples in the literature concerning the frustration of grieving relatives that they had no grave or focus for their grief.  It is so common it must have been felt among the combatants.

 

A very brief and unscientific scan of both the Thiepval and Menin Gate Memorials to the Missing returns only one officer of the rank of Colonel on the latter, and he was from 1914.  

It does seem to suggest the burials of senior officers were treated differently, one suspects it would not be possible for them to be accorded the military funeral appropriate to their rank under the shadow of the enemy guns.  Burial parties were often mistaken for working parties and considered fair game for snipers and heavy ordnance.

 

Ken

[TEW]

Apart from Boardman being mention in the 49th Infantry Brigade diary as 'killed' night of 4th/5th Aug there's no other mention. Surprised that the Field Ambulance don't mention the death of a Lt. Col.

 

Battalion diary says he was severely wounded 11.30pm on 4th Aug and died 12.45am 5th Aug at AP Potijze.

 

16th Division ADMS Medical Orders 3/8/17 places 113th Field Ambulance in charge of the ADS at Potijze (Chateau) map ref I.4.a.6.5.

 

However, the 113th FA is also in charge of the CMDS at Brandhoek (G.12.b.8.6) and a Bearer Assembly Point at Potijze so they must have been thin on the ground.

 

I wonder if someone got confused and assumed Boardman died at Potijze ADS because the 113th FA were cited. Note, the 8/RIF diary says he died at an RAP at Potijze when in fact it's an ADS.

 

If the cemetery is near G.12.b.8.6 I'd be tempted to say he died at the 113th FA CMDS rather than their ADS in Potijze despite what the battalion diary says. There's a gap of an hour and a quarter between being wounded and death, enough time to evacuate him to somewhere with better facilities. Unless the journey was likely to make him worse, why keep him at an ADS?

TEW

[Mark Hone]

Thanks, TEW: food for thought. I'm beginning to doubt that we'll ever get a definitive answer.

[TEW]

I checked the Brandhoek grid ref I gave and it's adjacent to the other Brandhoek cemetery. So my theory doesn't hold water because if he died at the CMDS then he'd be buried in that cemetery not the one adjacent to 32 CCS.

TEW

[TEW]

17 hours ago, TEW said:

I checked the Brandhoek grid ref I gave and it's adjacent to the other Brandhoek cemetery. So my theory doesn't hold water because if he died at the CMDS then he'd be buried in that cemetery not the one adjacent to 32 CCS.

TEW

 

I'll have to take back the above statement. Brandhoek Military Cemetery (the one adjacent to the CMDS) had its last burial of 1917 on 23/7/17 it then closed and Brandhoek New Military Cemetery took over. So, on 5/8/17 there was only one active cemetery at Brandhoek.

 

I thought it slightly odd that a CMDS was located at the site of 32 and 44 CCSs but in fact 44 CCS was still setting up and was not admitting, perhaps that's why 19 Corps had a CMDS there, to cover the reduced CCS group. 32 CCS was admitting 'special cases - abdominal' direct from the ADSs.

 

19 Corps DDMS diary has two MEDICAL ARRANGEMENTS; 24/7/17 and 2/8/17, the latter is more of an amendment to that of 24th July.

WO95/969/1

 

It's quite clear from both of the above that the Brandhoek CMDS was the location for wounded men from the right sector which includes 16th Division & Boardman, it was staffed by the same Field Ambulance that staffed the ADS at Potijze.

 

Evacuation from the ADSs (Potijze and Red Farm) were organised by divisions, they had horse ambulance transport at their disposal and field ambulance motor transport based at the CMDS running back and forth to the ADS (Brandhoek - Potijze).

 

Lastly, empty lorries returning from Potijze could be used or flagged down to assist with wounded, permission granted from C.E., S.M.T.O., & S.S.O.

 

Sometimes there are oddities in the way admin/discharge books were kept and the DDMS or ADMS gives specific orders on how to make the necessary entry. if you think about it, if a man is admitted to an RAP then ADS then evacuated by FA to a relay point and then by MAC to another relay point and then another FA who take him to a CCS it was considered ridiculous to be admitting and discharging each man from each unit of the evacuation and having his name show in 6 different registers. In this case the 16th Division were to make necessary entries in admin/discharge books to one Field Ambulance only irrespective of which FA were staffing the post/ADS etc.

 

I suspect there is no definitive answer but:

1. Brandhoek CMDS is his specified evacuation terminus. (Unless No. 3 applies)
2. There was time and transport available to evacuate him to Brandhoek.
3. 32 CCS at Brandhoek was receiving abdominal cases direct from Potijze
4. He is buried in Brandhoek

Diary says he died at Potijze!! Maybe his name was entered into the admin/discharge books of the 113th FA, location given as Potijze and when he died he was discharged from 113th FA, the fact that they were at Potijze and Brandhoek doesn't make life easy.

 

There are of course also the numerous empty lorries leaving Potijze, so plenty of opportunity for one to be commandeered to take his body.

 

TEW

[Mark Hone]

Thanks very much. Whatever the facts of the Boardman case, this gives me a clear idea of the casualty evacuation chain operating at the time for incorporation into my tour spiel. As I state elsewhere, treatment of casualties is planned to be one of the main themes of my 2017 school tour.

[Chris Best]

On 2 August 2016 at 14:04, kenf48 said:

A very brief and unscientific scan of both the Thiepval and Menin Gate Memorials to the Missing returns only one officer of the rank of Colonel on the latter, and he was from 1914. 

 

Presumably you are referring to Brig-Gen Charles Fitzclarence VC who died in 1914, kenf48?  If not, who's the Col you refer to?

 

[Ron Clifton]

On 8/2/2016 at 14:04, kenf48 said:

A very brief and unscientific scan of both the Thiepval and Menin Gate Memorials to the Missing returns only one officer of the rank of Colonel on the latter, and he was from 1914.  

 

Ken

There is a major-general (G H Thesiger) on the Loos Memorial to the Missing.

 

Ron

[kenf48]

6 hours ago, Chris Best said:

 

Presumably you are referring to Brig-Gen Charles Fitzclarence VC who died in 1914, kenf48?  If not, who's the Col you refer to?

 

 

Charles Arthur Cecil King

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1617596/KING, CHARLES ARTHUR CECIL

 

The point I was making was of the 72,246 names listed on the Thiepval Memorial a search on 'Colonel' gives nil return and of the 54,000 on the Menin Gate just one.

That seems to suggest senior officer funerals may have been treated differently to those of junior officers an ORs. It was the rank, not the name, but no doubt someone will be along soon with a spreadsheet.  I just thought Mark posed an interesting question which went to issues of class and hierarchy in the BEF.

 

Ken