Conscientious objector tracing

[yperman]

Good morning,

 

I am researching a conscientious objector and I will be very grateful for advice on the procedure used to deal with objectors - did they go through the criminal courts and where might I look for a record?

 

Many thanks.

[David Filsell]

Many were Quakers. If he was the Society of Friends may be able to assist you. 

[Terry_Reeves]

yperman

 

I would strongly recommend Conscience and Politics by John Rae. , Oxford University Press, 1970. It can be bought on the internet for a few pounds. The subject is quite complex and involved a whole host of views, from religions various, not all of whom objected  on pacifist  grounds. Other groupings included those who took a view that war was morally wrong, others objected on political grounds. Not all those classed as CO's objected  to military service either, with some agreeing to join the Non Combatant Corps for instance. Others, agreed to work in munitions factories and so forth.  

 

If you know where he came from local papers can be a mine of information, particularly from the tribunal point of view. You can also try the Peace Pledge Union who also have some records. They can be found on-line.

 

TR

[Gustywinds]

The IWM has a register

https://search.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/search/world-records/conscientious-objectors-register-1914-1918

 

As the poster above says, the Society of Friends library can help with Quakers and many of those joined the Friends' Ambulance Unit which is my area of interest.

One of the most famous is Corder Catchpool who originally joined FAU but left when conscription came out and imposed military dress and regulations on them.

http://quakersintheworld.org/quakers-in-action/234

[yperman]

Thank you all for your help and link. I will get the book.

 

The objector was my great, great uncle. He objected as he was a member of the communist party. He seems to have spent time in prison but, would never tell me anything else about his experiences except that the rank and file soldiers he came into contact with treated him very well and the rest of officialdom were "B"******ds" - but then he was a Lancashire lad and not exactly quiet or timid...

 

Many thanks,

 

Yperman

[yperman]

Thank you all once again - found him on the link kindly provided by Gustywinds. He was processed through the Nelson Police Court.

Yperman

[Magnumbellum]

7 hours ago, yperman said:

 

I am researching a conscientious objector and I will be very grateful for advice on the procedure used to deal with objectors - did they go through the criminal courts and where might I look for a record?

 

 

Without the conscientious objector's name, it is impossible to say whether any information is available other than what you have already found. In researching a Great War individual, putting the actual name on GWF is always a useful starting point; you might be surprised how extensive GWF collective knowledge of individuals can be.

 

If you have found from the Pearce Register on the IWM site that he appeared before "Nelson Police Court", I would offer the following remarks.

 

There was a strange custom in the early 20th century of disguising Magistrates' Courts as so-called "Police Courts", as if they were somehow run by or for the Police. In fact, they were plain and simple Magistrates' Courts, overseen by Magistrates, lay or Stipendiary as the case might be, so the contemporary reference to "Nelson Police Court" requires translation into plain English as "Nelson Magistrates' Court".

 

The report of a Magistrates' Court appearance enables a retrospective reconstruction of the so far anonymous man's "CO CV" to that date. . It may be presumed that the CO applied to the Nelson Military Service Tribunal for CO exemption, but was refused, and possibly he also applied to the Lancashire County MS Appeal Tribunal, and was similarly refused.

 

The next stage would have been a notice sent to him requiring him to report to a local Army barracks or camp on a specified day. This he may be presumed to have ignored, resulting in the War Office notifying the local civil Police, and a constable arresting him and bringing him before the Magistrates' Court. The magistrates would have fined him, probably 40/-, and handed him over to a waiting military escort, who would have taken him to the barracks or camp to which he had been previously required to report.

 

The usual course after such handing over was that a CO would refuse orders, such as to put on a uniform, leading to charge before a court-martial and imprisonment in a civil prison. This could go on to a cycle of release, return to the Army, renewed disobedience, another court-martial, further imprisonment, until 1919, Or he could have been diverted via the Home Office Scheme. Without knowing his name, I cannot say whether it is known which of those routes he followed. At all events, he would have finally been a free man again not later than August 1919.

 

The reference to his motivation deriving from membership of the Communist Party requires some clarification. The Communist Party was not founded in Britain until 1920, well after hostilities had ceased and all COs released. It seems likely thatduring the war he was a member of the British Socialist Party, a marxist party to the left of the Independent Labour Party.  Joining the Communist Party when it was founded would have been a natural progression from his point of view.

 

In recommending John Rae's Conscience and Politics, 1970, Terry Reeves omitted mention of David Boulton, Objection Overruled, MacGibbon & Kee, 1967; this was republished in 2014, with additional material, by Dales Historical Monographs. An example of the difference of approach between the two books is that Rae's account of the COs formally sentenced to death, but immediately reprieved, was misleading as to the number of them and gave no names or detail of any of them, whereas Boulton lists all 35, with details.

 

Terry's recommendation of contacting the Peace Pledge Union is certainly apposite: www.ppu.org.uk/coproject

[Bernard_Lewis]

Once again Magnumbellum puts flesh on the bones. Thank you.

 

It's also interesting to note that, unlike what we see in TV dramas, it was indeed the local bobby who would be sent to apprehend a 'non-show' who had ignored his call-up papers. In Swansea, Thomas Lee (a non-show) saw the local bobby at a distance and 'legged it' with the rozzer (who probably knew him) in pursuit. He was duly nabbed, taken before the magistrates, fined £10 for ignoring the provisions of the Military Service Act and handed over to the military...

 

Bernard 

[yperman]

Thank you very much Magnumbellum. My Great, Great Uncle was Thomas Alfred  Robertshaw of Nelson, Lancashire and like his brother Arthur a member of the No Conscription Fellowship. From the link given to me by Gustywinds he was taken before the Military Service Tribunal at Nelson on the 15th. March 1916. An exemption certificate was granted but revoked on Appeal.  In later life he said he had absconded and spent his savings walking in the Lake District (which he loved) until his money ran out and he handed himself into the police.

 

Per the link he appeared before the Nelson "Police" Court on the 14th June 1916 and was fined  40/- and was then sent to "Preston and Kimmel Park" - were these civilian prisons?

 

He told me towards the end of his life he was a life long Marxist and Communist Party member, so it was especially interesting to learn in the Great War he may have been a member of the British Workers Party - though as MagnumBellum points out this would have  seemed  just a progression to him. He also said he was struck by the different attitudes and behaviour towards him - the Police and Prisons officers giving him a very bad time while the rank and file soldiers he came into contact with treated him well and agreed with his view the War was a 'b****dy' slaughter of the workers.

 

I will Amazon David Boulton's book.

 

Many thanks, Yperman

[SiegeGunner]

Very interesting to hear about the reaction to and treatment of objectors on political rather than religious grounds.  I wonder how the two strands of conscientious objection got on together in detention and alternative service.  Did Thomas (and his brother?) refused to participate in any form of war service?  I don't know what age they were, but did either of the brothers later take part in the Spanish Civil War?

[David Filsell]

Fascinating stuff

[yperman]

Thomas was 24 in 1916, I think his brother was slightly younger. I don't know if he participated in any form of war service. As far as I know neither brother were in the Spanish Civil War and I believe Thomas spent the rest of his life at his old job of weaver in Nelson. He seems to have been politically active only at a local level.

[Magnumbellum]

6 hours ago, Bernard_Lewis said:

Once again Magnumbellum puts flesh on the bones. Thank you.

 

It's also interesting to note that, unlike what we see in TV dramas, it was indeed the local bobby who would be sent to apprehend a 'non-show' who had ignored his call-up papers. In Swansea, Thomas Lee (a non-show) saw the local bobby at a distance and 'legged it' with the rozzer (who probably knew him) in pursuit. He was duly nabbed, taken before the magistrates, fined £10 for ignoring the provisions of the Military Service Act and handed over to the military...

 

 

2 hours ago, yperman said:

Thank you very much Magnumbellum. My Great, Great Uncle was Thomas Alfred  Robertshaw of Nelson, Lancashire and like his brother Arthur a member of the No Conscription Fellowship. From the link given to me by Gustywinds he was taken before the Military Service Tribunal at Nelson on the 15th. March 1916. An exemption certificate was granted but revoked on Appeal.  In later life he said he had absconded and spent his savings walking in the Lake District (which he loved) until his money ran out and he handed himself into the police.

 

Per the link he appeared before the Nelson "Police" Court on the 14th June 1916 and was fined  40/- and was then sent to "Preston and Kimmel Park" - were these civilian prisons?

 

He told me towards the end of his life he was a life long Marxist and Communist Party member, so it was especially interesting to learn in the Great War he may have been a member of the British Workers Party - though as MagnumBellum points out this would have  seemed  just a progression to him. He also said he was struck by the different attitudes and behaviour towards him - the Police and Prisons officers giving him a very bad time while the rank and file soldiers he came into contact with treated him well and agreed with his view the War was a 'b****dy' slaughter of the workers.

 

 

Thanks for this further information, which opens up the issues and, in principle confirms my supposition about Thomas Robertshaw's tribunal application. My interpretation of the report that the certificate of exemption granted by he Nelson Tribunal was revoked on appeal is that the appeal was made by the local Military Representative. A disturbing feature of the WW1 Tribunal system (not repeated in WW2) was that the War Office was empowered to appoint a Representative as a legal "party" to the Tribunal, with the specific function of opposing every application and stressing the voracious demand of military canons for fodder as against the quiet expression of personal conscience.

 

In most cases, following a ruling by a County Appeal Tribunal, there was no further appeal, and that would have been in Robertshaw's mind when he went "on the run", to use the colloquial word for absconding. There were relatively few who took this route, partly because of lack of money to live on (Robertshaw fortunately had some savings) but also because one was likely to be challenged at any time by a policeman, noticing a man of obvious military age not in uniform and not obviously usefully employed, and asked to prove his status in relation to the Military Service Act.  On running out of his savings, surrendering to the Police was a an obvious and logical choice, bitter though it must have been.

 

The fine of 40/- (£2), as I forecast, was the norm, though I have come across cases where £5 was imposed. The £10 fine imposed on Thomas Lee at Swansea, as mentioned by Bernard Lewis, was most unusual. In practice, most fines imposed on COs at the time of "handing over" were never paid. Theoretically, the notice of fine was passed to the Army for implementing by deductions from Army pay, but as most COs refused orders, including signing pay documents, and/or lost pay by constant disobedience, there was no pay from which to make deductions. In cases where a CO ended up in prison, the outstanding fine could be submitted to the magistrates' court for conversion to so many days imprisonment, according to an official scale, and then that period was made to run concurrently with the sentence the man was already serving.

 

The post-Magistrates' Court scenario for Rowlandson was that he was taken from the court to Army barracks in Preston, where he doubtless had originally been required to report, and where he would be initially processed. Then he was transferred to the large Army camp at Kinmel Park, Abergele, north, Wales. Now that I have his name, I can check what is known about his further movements.

 

[Bernard_Lewis]

Mr Swan: that is a remarkably helpful reply...to me.

 

I have copies of the minute book of a Swansea court in Victorian times and plan to do an analysis of its cases for an article or book chapter.

 

I shall use your explanation to check exactly which court I've copied the records from. As its not clear...

 

Thanks!

 

Bernard

[Bernard_Lewis]

It's been in the 'To do' pile for a while. I have copied a year from the minute books (which seem reasonably detailed) and I have also copied the local press coverage. Lump that in with prison records, census data etc and I think it will make a story. I also have some comparative figures for other towns, too.

 

Bernard

[Magnumbellum]

On 26/07/2016 at 18:19, yperman said:

The objector was my great, great uncle ... He seems to have spent time in prison but, would never tell me anything else about his experiences ...

 

On 27/07/2016 at 07:02, yperman said:

My Great, Great Uncle was Thomas Alfred  Robertshaw of Nelson, Lancashire and like his brother Arthur a member of the No Conscription Fellowship. From the link given to me by Gustywinds he was taken before the Military Service Tribunal at Nelson on the 15th. March 1916. An exemption certificate was granted but revoked on Appeal.

 

He told me towards the end of his life he was a life long Marxist and Communist Party member, so it was especially interesting to learn in the Great War he may have been a member of the British Workers Party - though as MagnumBellum points out this would have  seemed  just a progression to him. He also said he was struck by the different attitudes and behaviour towards him - the Police and Prisons officers giving him a very bad time while the rank and file soldiers he came into contact with treated him well and agreed with his view the War was a 'b****dy' slaughter of the workers.

 

Now that I have had time to look up for myself what is known of Thomas Robertshaw's record, and to reflect, it is appropriate to clarify and comment further.

 

It may be simplest to begin with Yperman's other great great uncle, Arthur Robertshaw (or is he actually Yperman's great grandfather?), who was not actually mentioned in the OP. Conventionally, he is due the precedence of seniority (he was 37 in 1916, whereas his kid brother, Thomas, was a mere 24), and his "CO CV" was straightforward, providing a measure against which Thomas' experience can be assessed.

 

Although both brothers were members of the No-Conscription Fellowship (covering both religious and political COs), Arthur based his application on a Wesleyan Methodist affiliation. There is a strong radical tradition in Methodism, which motivated significant numbers of COs in both world wars; that is distinct from the evident Marxist tendency of Thomas. (Some may recall the aphorism distinguishing traditional Labour from Communism, that "Labour owes more to Methodism than Marxism".)

 

Be that as it may, when Arthur appeared before the Nelson Military Service Tribunal, he was granted the lowest level of CO exemption, "Exemption from Combatant Service", meaning that he was allocated to be called up to the Non-Combatant Corps (NCC), a uniformed soldier of the Army, but guaranteed not to use or even handle weapons or ammunition. Whether this was actually what Arthur asked for (he could have asked for Absolute Exemption, or Exemption from any Military Service, Conditional upon performing civilian Work of National Importance), we do not know, but he appears not to have appealed against that ruling, and he appears to have co-operated with it, at least well enough not to cause himself or anyone else any trouble. Called up in 1916, he served in the NCC entirely within the UK until demob in 1919.

 

Thomas also appeared before the Nelson MST. (Here I must insert a clarification of Yperman's interpretation of the record he read on the link, claiming that Thomas was "taken before the MST". Appearance as an applicant before the MST was entirely voluntary - nobody was "taken", and there was nobody with authority to "take" anybody in such a situation.) Thomas very likely applied for Absolute Exemption. We know that he was also granted Exemption form Combatant Service. We know that there was an appeal to the Lancs County Appeal Tribunal, and interpreting what we know of Thomas, and from many similar cases, it is likely that Thomas initiated the appeal by again asking for Absolute Exemption, to which the Military Representative responded by cross-appealing against even the limited exemption granted by the Nelson MST. Military Representatives often used the right of appeal to "punish" COs for daring to appeal, and the Appeal Tribunal took their cue and followed suit - a familiar story.

 

So, Thomas went on the run until he used up his savings, then handed himself in to the Police. It may be significant that  his surrender was a week after Arthur had compulsorily enlisted, giving rise to speculation that Arthur might have been helping him, financially, boosting morale, or both, and being left on his own became a factor. One small detail we do know: he spent a night in the Nelson Police Station cells after he surrendered before being brought before the magistrates the next day.

 

After surrender, and handing over by Nelson magistrates to the military, Thomas was taken to the local barracks at Preston, and on to Kinmel Park Camp, Abergele, but then the story goes cold. His official military record no longer exists, and must be presumed to have been destroyed by the bombing of the Public Record Office in WW2. Additionally, the Conscientious Objectors Information Bureau seems to have lost track of him after reporting those movements. Nothing sinister need be interpreted from the lack of such records. The COIB, a voluntary organisation allied to the No-Conscription Fellowship, was dependent on local volunteers sending in information, but volunteers themselves sometimes got caught up in unexpected movements, arrests etc. It is surprising how much information was passed on and recorded in the exigencies of wartime, not that occasionally some pieces of the jig-saw went missing.

 

Here Yperman himself becomes a crucial witness, testifying that Thomas told him that he went to prison. All such oral accounts need, for reliability, some squaring with known facts. As I have indicated earlier in this thread, it would be expected that at Kinmel Park Thomas would have disobeyed orders, leading to court-martial and imprisonment. A likely place for imprisonment of a man court-martialled at Kinmel Park would have been Walton Prison, Liverpool, or possibly Preston Prison. Beyond that it becomes more speculative, as it is not at all clear what might have happened at the end of such a first sentence.

 

Yperman, can you please rack your brains as to any clues at all Great Great Uncle Thomas gave as to what prison or prisons he was in, for how long, and whether there was any hint of moving on to the Home Office Scheme? Whatever you recall can be used as evidence for the permanent record.

[yperman]

Firstly may I say how much I appreciate he trouble Magnumbellum has gone to. Thank you.

 

My research has been bedevilled by  the fact I am the only member of the family to remember my Great, Great Uncle Thomas - and that was as a boy in my early teens.  It is compounded by the lack of photos or  written records of any kind, migrations and various family disputes and permanent estrangements. They do seem to have been Methodists for the most part and some were socialists. Uncle Tom did not talk much about that period of his life but both he, and my father, said that he had spent time in prison.  Sadly that is all information I have- I would guess he would have been jailed somewhere in the North West of England or Wales. 

 

I am really grateful to all of the above forum members and especially Magnumbellum for shedding so much light  on this part of my family's past. Yperman

 

[Magnumbellum]

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad to have been able to help - that is what GWF is about.

 

We may take it as clear that Thomas went to prison at least once.

 

What happened afterwards is not clear. He may have had further sentences, or he may have eventually accepted the Home Office Scheme. It is possible that we went on the run again.

 

I will see that the fact of Thomas going to prison is added to the record available on the IWM website, although it will take some considerable time before the addition appears.

[Magnumbellum]

On 27/07/2016 at 08:43, SiegeGunner said:

Very interesting to hear about the reaction to and treatment of objectors on political rather than religious grounds.  I wonder how the two strands of conscientious objection got on together in detention and alternative service.  Did Thomas (and his brother?) refused to participate in any form of war service? 

 

The Robertshaw brothers illustrate that the two strands of religion and politics were not necessarily as far apart as is sometimes imagined. The family were traditionally Methodist, and Arthur argued his case on that ground. Thomas, younger, became involved in the political left.

 

As you will have seen elsewhere on the thread, Arthur was prepared to compromise by accepting conscription to the Non-Combatant Corps. Thomas refused to accept any sort of war service, and was imprisoned.

 

COs from different traditions in the main rubbed along together, accepting that they were a microcosm of the world they were all trying to create of mutual tolerance and sharing of life's resources, rather than continual enmity, greed and ultimate destruction. Sometimes there were serious discussions between them, at other times the different groups quietly got on with whatever moved them,