Comparison of Ypres and the Somme as a visitor experience

[John_Hartley]

De Ruyffelaer is our favourite restaurant in Ieper. Mrs H is a big fan of the guy who owns it - he always manages to suggest a beer that perfectly matches the food she's ordered.

[KONDOA]

According to what I have heard, you can get trench foot at both whilst being shot at by Germans. As a visitor both are to be avoided.

 

[kenf48]

From a 'house magazine'

 

"as you know this year is the 100th Anniversary of the Somme and we shall be laying a wreath at the Menin Gate"

 

 grrrrKen 

[sc-em]

Apologies for hijacking this thread from a few years back, but I came across it in a search. My wife and I are planning to holiday in Normandy this summer, quite close to Caen. Whilst there I would like to do a day trip (it's a bit of a trek) to visit one of the battlefields of WW1. Would I be correct in assuming the Somme would be a good one to visit as a very first visit to any battlefield (excluding the 1 month I stayed in Verdun when I was a child). I am open to suggestions but with limited time, I would like to make the most of any visit and recommendation of must visit places.  We would like to go for longer but we will be leaving our dogs with our teens, so don't want to be away more than a long day.

[kenf48]

7 hours ago, sc-em said:

Would I be correct in assuming the Somme would be a good one to visit as a very first visit to any battlefield

 

It would be a  very long day to say, Thiepval (about 4 hours) and Ypres would probably mean the whole day travelling and is I'd suggest not a possibility unless you want to spend the whole day driving.

 

How about Amiens? Villers-Brettoneux?

https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-cemeteries-and-memorials/63701/villers-bretonneux-military-cemetery/history

about 3 hours from Caen, marginally quicker with tolls still a long day but full of interest.

 

You might also make it to Saint Quentin which is about an hour down the road from Amiens

Chris Baker has a short guide on the LLT

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battlefields/advice-on-visiting-the-western-front-battlefields-of-the-great-war/the-long-long-trail-guide-to-the-area-of-saint-quentin/

 

It's very difficult to get a feel for a battlefield in a couple of hours, but exciting to research before you go I would recommend the battles of 1914/1918 as they are closer to your base.

 

Ken

[Michelle Young]

I agree with Ken, it really would be a lot of travelling for not a lot of time there. Where you are staying has plenty of history! I would concentrate on the area round Caen and plan a separate trip to the Great War areas. 

Michelle 

[sc-em]

Thanks for the input both. We are actually staying in Blonville sur Mer, which is a little closer to the main areas than Caen itself. I do indeed intend to take in the sites of the D Day landing, but as we are there for 3 weeks, we will have plenty of time. It's the first time we have taken the dogs abroad and thought the opportunity to at least visit something WW1 related would be interesting. I have just received my OS trench maps of the Somme and Menin and have thoroughly enjoyed (for want of a better phrase) the Great War on You Tube where they produced a week by week account of the war 100 years later. As you say, doing the homework will be interesting and I shall look at the links you sent me.

[Michelle Young]

I guess it depends whether travel is allowed, at the moment, I'm gloomy about whether my annual trip to Loos in September will come off! There are WW1 ar craves at Etretat, Le Havre, Le Tréport. All not far over the Pont de Normandie. As I wrote earlier in this thread, I no longer visit the Somme or Salient for more than a day trip, finding other battlefields less crowded and dare I say it, more interesting.

Michelle 

[sc-em]

We are trying to be optimistic about travel as we are crossing by tunnel and staying in a small cottage. Our concern was the possible two weeks quarantine when we return, so we cut short our intended month by a week. Apart from Loos, which are your preferred battlefields and why? I see you list the forgotten 1915 ones in your interests. As well as bikes. Maybe I should go on my bike for a few days sometime.

[Gareth Davies]

49 minutes ago, sc-em said:

Thanks for the input both. We are actually staying in Blonville sur Mer, which is a little closer to the main areas than Caen itself. I do indeed intend to take in the sites of the D Day landing, but as we are there for 3 weeks, we will have plenty of time. It's the first time we have taken the dogs abroad and thought the opportunity to at least visit something WW1 related would be interesting. I have just received my OS trench maps of the Somme and Menin and have thoroughly enjoyed (for want of a better phrase) the Great War on You Tube where they produced a week by week account of the war 100 years later. As you say, doing the homework will be interesting and I shall look at the links you sent me.

 

The beaches will take you very little time. Get off the beaches and head inland, that's where the really interesting stuff happened. But I am now talking about the Second World War so will say no more.

[Michelle Young]

56 minutes ago, sc-em said:

We are trying to be optimistic about travel as we are crossing by tunnel and staying in a small cottage. Our concern was the possible two weeks quarantine when we return, so we cut short our intended month by a week. Apart from Loos, which are your preferred battlefields and why? I see you list the forgotten 1915 ones in your interests. As well as bikes. Maybe I should go on my bike for a few days sometime.

Festubert/Richebourg, Aubers, Loos, Cambrai, Arras, St Quentin,  the Aisne/Marne and the Vosges. Why? Because I'm more interested in the actions around there, particularly the late 1914/ early 1915 actions around the Rue du Bois area. The Aisne, because it's the where the BEF entrenched, and my late father loved the area, Cambrai, because it's an area I'm just starting to really research, St Quentin ditto. Arras again ditto. 

The Vosges because it's a fabulous beautiful area, with some wonderful hidden vestiges, and some interesting roads on a motorbike! 

 

I also love the scenery around the Aisne and the Marne, and the open areas around St Quentin and Cambrai. I like staying in French owned Gites as well, to eat the regional food,   and practice my French.

 

Michelle 

 

 

 

[sc-em]

Thanks for that, Michelle. I can see I will have to make a separate plan to visit these areas. They sound fascinating. Coincidentally I have just been listening to The Great War broadcast on You Tube covering the weeks around the St Quentin offensives and the impact of the Americans, and of course, the usual loss of lives. The breaching of the Hindenburg line and the extraordinary endeavours of Alvin York at the Meuse - Argonne offensive.

[Marilyne]

I saw some remarks on the Ibis in Albert... honestly, I never had any troubles there and it's my usual sleepover place whenever I'm in need of one... as it will be in july! 

on the other hand, I'm not picky and would sleep nearly anywhere... 

But it's easy access and has parking space for my tank! 

 

M. 

[sc-em]

No problem for my Vito then.

[nigelcave]

I have recently taken to spending lengthy periods in the Meuse/Argonne area. Whilst following some of Maarten Otte's tours for his new book in the Battleground series on the American-French final offensive on the Right Bank, up to the Armistice, I was rewarded with some really fabulous scenery with not more than half a dozen souls around for each of the days I was out and about. On top of that so much 'stuff' still lying around - for example on the final German armistice line, a wander along the trench at the edge of a wood came up with: a spoon and knife set (German), a German shovel, eight German onion grenades (unfused) in a pile, 'crates' of old bottles, an inscribed drinking glass (German - alas, broken), piles of expended machine-gun ammunition, several coils of barbed wire, several porcelain holders for electric wiring - and so on and so forth. And of course it was in a very interesting location - the site of the death in action of Henry Gunther, officially the last member of the AEF to be kia in the war. The bonus was the old rail head, plus a huge bunker and a wood filled with all sorts of interesting holes, probably related to it being a dump.

There is so much to see in the area it could easily occupy a week or ten days; and even then you would just be scraping the surface. Amongst other things there remain the large concrete pillars at the north end of the road to the hamlet of Gilbercy which, at the appropriate moment had heavy chains between them to act as a road block/tank trap. Plenty of German cemeteries of almost CWGC size as well.

Certainly a place that I would chose to stay for a week or more every year, given the opportunity.

 

Accommodation in the area runs at about €40-50 for a room, €60 if shared, en suite and with a good breakfast. I stay at Maarten and Didi's Nantillois 14-18 (small but excellent private museum attached). It must be good as I completed 12 weeks there last Sunday (!), although I was not paying anything like the usual rate for eleven of them - the first week I had booked. They also offer a very good three course meal - eateries are rare in the area and for any sort of choice you need to head in, realistically, to Verdun or Vienne le Chateau, where there is good restaurant in the hotel there.

[David Filsell]

Nigel,

G'day.

The term jammy comes to mind! What great fun. Enjoy.

Very best regards,

David

 

 

[sc-em]

Wow! Fancy finding such relics. Is that a common place occurrence when one wander the sites of battlefield. It sounds fascinating. What are the protocols with such finds?

We are just looking at getting an awning tent to fit on our van, so maybe an overnighter would be an option, heading towards St Quentin the first day and then back for a Somme visit the next?

[kenf48]

12 hours ago, sc-em said:

What are the protocols with such finds?

 

Leave them alone, do not pick up anything you do not recognise. The 'iron harvest' continues to claim lives.That said you're unlikely to find anything on a whistle stop tour.

 

I notice in another thread you queried Martin Gilbert's book, might I suggest as it now looks as though it's an overnight stay, you get hold of a good guide book e.g. Holt's 'Battlefields of the First World War' which has a number of themed motor tours.  Other guides, are available as are walking and cycling guides. 

You will also need a good map e.g.

https://www.themapcentre.com/the-great-war-1914-18-ign-battlefield-map-the-western-front-7602-p.asp

again other maps are available.

 

I appreciate you may prefer to use technology but a personal view is you can't beat a good map

 

 

 

[Michelle Young]

I agree with Ken. I detest satnavs. I have linesman, but that is a recent acquisition. I would much rather use a map. 

Michelle 

[sc-em]

No, I am definitely a map person, being a scout from an early age to my teens. Give me a map any day. They give a broader perspective of where you are which I think will be essential when trying to trace locations in context and proximity. I will look at the map link, thank you and the book. I was meaning the Martin Gilbert in terms of a read when actually there for the month, rather than a pure guide. I do have an original set of the Michelin Battlefield guides but can imagine that things have changed somewhat from the photos taken in the early 20s.

As for the 'iron harvest'. I hear your words!

 

Book and map ordered. Thanks

Edited 16 June , 2020 by sc-em

[Marilyne]

Satnav is good for long distances in the car (or truck, in the Loggie's case)… on foot, give me a map!!! Far more reliable!! But that's soldier talk…

 

M.

[sc-em]

Common sense to know how to read a map I would say. Tech is okay until there is no power. It always make me laugh when you see people trying to fold and OS map.

[Swann RAnger]

As for comps between the two areas, there’s more chance of getting your car window vandalised on the Somme.

[EarlyMB]

I hope to go with my sister to the Somme in a month for our first 'real' WW1 battlefield visit. It's just for 2 days and I booked a small holiday house in Albert for 1 night. We'll bring sandwiches for the first day and just buy a baguette and some cheese and sausage for breakfast and lunch on day 2. As for dinner, if we can't find a decent looking restaurant there's always the big, yellow 'M' of civilization. I don't mind eating there once per year and that day might be the occasion.

 

As for maps, I'll probably use Google Maps on a tablet with added markers on points of interest.

 

At the moment I can travel through Belgium and into France without any restrictions or quarantains, I can only hope it will stay that way. Fingers crossed...

[charlesa]

Good morning EarlyMB,

in my opinion this is the stand out restaurant on the Somme by a mile:

https://www.facebook.com/aubergevalleeancre/

 

Fantastic food and reasonably priced although the wine list is extensive with few "house" wines.

Authuille village is very close to Albert ( I would guess about 5 kms).

They do not take online bookings I think you need to call.

 

Best wishes

Charles