Comparison of Ypres and the Somme as a visitor experience

[Mark Hone]

Mrs H. and I have just visited Ypres and the Somme in quick succession. The battlefield sites of both are wonderful but the experience for visitors contrasted starkly. Ypres: superb hotels ( the Ariane in our case), excellent eateries and watering holes ( such as the new 'St Arnoldus' beer cafe), friendly and helpful people. Albert: Ibis, nearly as expensive as the Ariane but light years apart in terms of service and comfort; a virtually inedible steak and dire wine in the second-highest rated restaurant in town, occasionally friendly but painfully slow service and a general feeling that, despite some good displays in the shops, the area is simply not geared up for making the most of the centenary. Am I being unfair?

[Seadog]

I agree Mark, Flanders is much more geared-up to the visitor and the facilities are excellent. The Somme is not so visitor-friendly which may not be a bad thing and in my experience it is better to go self-catering by renting a property. On the plus side the Somme has appeared to avoid so far the "theme park" type of experience which is somewhat prevalent in Flanders though both locations are of course extremely poignant to visit for reasons which are obvious.

 

Norman

[Terry Carter]

hello Mark

I stayed at the Ibis in Albert from 30 June to 2nd July and the Ariane on 3 and 4 July and I agree with what you say. The Ibis seemed fairly quiet for such an important anniversary, despite people saying it was fully booked. On the evening of 1st July a British guy turned up to see if there were any rooms available and was told yes at 200 euros per night!! 

Yes the Ariane was a better hotel, The room at the Ibis was good the staff friendly and helpful and the continental breakfast was OK despite someone swapping my boiling egg with a fresh one !! 

From the Ariane the view was buildings and streets of Ypres town. From by room at the Ibis in Albert I could see Bapaume Post Cemetery and the "Tara Usna" line and open fields. Thus the Somme gets my vote. 

I also have to admit in my 20 years or so of visiting the Somme the only French person I usually speak to is Dominic in the Tommy Bar. But on this 100 Anniversary I was with the Birmingham Council party and we were guests of the Albert Council and we had three events at the Basilica and meals in various bar/restaurants in Albert and despite non of us speaking each other languages we had an excellent stay and I've made some good friends and planning to meet again when I return in September.

 

Terry  

[charlesa]

I totally agree with you Mark. The Somme is not geared up for visitors at all.

I would never stay in a hotel in the area. I now stay in Auchonvillers at the Beaumont Hamel View B&B and also have one meal at the superb (in my opinion) Auberge de la vallee d'Ancre in Authuille.

28.50 euros for the mid range 5 course menu and easily the best food on the Somme, again imo.

Otherwise I self -cater as Norman suggests.

Best wishes

Charles

[Phil Wood]

Stayed at the Ibis, Albert for the first time a couple of months ago - and was pleasantly surprised.  It is certainly convenient for the battlefields and, though, perhaps not up to the standard of the Ariane, perfectly acceptable and with the great advantage of allowing dogs - we (2 adults, 2 dogs) stopped for a couple of night en-route for an extended stay in the Pyranees.

Eating out is a different story - much easier around Ieper - though I will admit to enjoying the omelettes at Tommy's. 

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for those replies. I am pretty sure that I ate in that Auberge in Authuille 30 years ago on the Holts' 70th anniversary tour. I have good, if hazy memories, of the food. To be fair we found the vast majority of people in Albert very friendly and helpful: honourable mentions for the bewhiskered taxi driver, the lady selling souvenirs at the basilica, the lady in the florists and the owner of 'Le Chiquito' Bar/Tabac who provided us with good coffee early in the morning. 

[Chris_Baker]

Put aside the Great war aspects for a moment, we are talking about two quite different things in Ypres and Albert. The former is in the centre of a fast-growing region, population and business-wise. Ypres is bound to have more by way of hotels and facilities than Albert, a rather sleepy centre of a de-populating, rural area.

 

Now add a layer of Great War tourism.

 

Ypres, and the Flanders region in general, has grasped the business opportunity that battlefield tourism represents. It is easier and quicker to reach from the UK; on the route to/from more southerly parts of Europe; and near the tourist honeypot of Bruges. Personally, I very much dislike what it has done to Ypres and the battlefield, but that's life.

 

Albert and Picardie haven't done that - at least, with anything like the investment that's gone into Flanders. It's left Albert pretty much as it was 30 years ago: a sprinkling of hotels and bars aimed at the Brits, but otherwise a small working town. I can only imagine that the centenary opportunities were examined very carefully by the local region, and they've done what they have - which doesn't seem too much. Other than the Thiepval visitor centre and the odd development here and there, the battlefield is scarcely changed since I first went - and I like that. Again personally I have never been terribly taken with Albert as a place to stay. If I am in the area I will always stay in Arras or St-Quentin for preference. But hey ho, that's my preference and others will think differently.

[kenf48]

By 2013 the Flemish authorities and Belgian Government had, as Chris notes, invested heavily in infrastructure to support tourism during the Centenary to the the tune of at least 50 million euros  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24842067

 

and this from a year earlierrhttp://www.vlaanderen.be/int/en/news/minister-president-presents-flanders-fields-declaration-foreign-diplomatic-representatives

 

At the time it was rather insensitively compared to an 'Olympic' opportunity, which provoked a very negative reaction in Belgium.

 

In that regard the comparison is unfair to be honest I preferred Thiepval when it didn't have a visitor centre, and when you could spend rainy morning wandering around sites such as the Newfoundland Battle Park, only troubled by a local trying to sell buttons and badges for a couple of francs, there that dates me!  On the other hand it seems to me Ypres, from the earliest days of battlefield tourism, always had an eye to opportunity.  

 

I'd agree with Chris, Arras is the place to stay when visiting the Somme, although the difference between the tourist office there and at Ypres is striking.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

[Mark Hone]

Thanks for those interesting and thoughtful responses. I remember thinking in the early 1990s that Albert was probably unchanged from the early 1950s-it still had one of those 'Clochemerle' bus-shelter toilets in the centre of town. The jury is out as to whether the Ypres area's massive recent investment in battlefield tourism will pay off in the long run. As discussed on earlier threads there are some pessimistic voices in the town who think that tourist numbers will fall off a cliff after the immediate centenary period. I'm not sure of that but I got the impression from my recent trip that some of the infrastructure developments may not yield the rich dividends envisaged. 

[John_Hartley]

Like many, I'm a big fan of the Ariane. And there's some really excellent food in the vicinity - I'm thinking of the Michelin 2* Hostellerie St Nicolas at Elverdinghe or the 1* In De Wulf at Dranouter - places I wish were in North Cheshire so I could go regularly.

 

In recent years, on Somme visits, we've stayed at Chavasse Farm which is a fine self-catering location (not that we self cater, other than breakfast). And we've had really good, and good value, meals at the Auberge mentioned upthread, the Cochon Sale also at Authuile. And the restaurant at the Hotel de la Basilique has always been enjoyable - nice food and an interesting mix of customers - Brit war tourists and French sales reps (needless to say, I stereotype here - I havent been round actually asking).

Like many, I'm a big fan of the Ariane. And there's some really excellent food in the vicinity - I'm thinking of the Michelin 2* Hostellerie St Nicolas at Elverdinghe or the 1* In De Wulf at Dranouter - places I wish were in North Cheshire so I could go regularly.

 

In recent years, on Somme visits, we've stayed at Chavasse Farm which is a fine self-catering location (not that we self cater, other than breakfast). And we've had really good, and good value, meals at the Auberge mentioned upthread, the Cochon Sale also at Authuile. And the restaurant at the Hotel de la Basilique has always been enjoyable - nice food and an interesting mix of customers - Brit war tourists and French sales reps (needless to say, I stereotype here - I havent been round actually asking).

 

I've seen a decent looking small place in the middle of Suzanne but have never got round to eating there - nice small menu of "French food". Anyone know if it's any good?

[Mark Hone]

We tried to eat at the Basilique but it was closed that day, although being recce'ed by the Australian embassy complete with soldier driver. As posted above we subsequently ate in a nearby restaurant, second to the Basilique on TripAdvisor and it was pretty ghastly.

[horrocks]

Unfortunately I only ever stay in the Somme on Sunday & Monday evenings, so have never been able to eat at the Auberge in Authille, as it's unfortunately closed on those evenings.

 

The Somme is pretty spartan as regards eating. I always stay at Battery Valley Farm, which is basic but comfortable, well-located, and you are served a breakfast fit for a king, all for very little money. Lunchtime and evening I picnic. I take a bottle or two of (French) wine over with me, which seems odd, but I sell the stuff for a (meagre) living!

[David Filsell]

I'm no real foodie but Charles A is spot on the Auberge de la vallee d'Ancre in Authuille is excellent. In fact the only place I have found on the Somme  which serves 'really good' food (and at  reasonable cost). Fact is, the Somme is pretty much a culinary desert - poor food is he norm .

In the Ypres area the food is generally fairly good wherever you go and the choice of good Belgian beer is wide.

 

[John_Hartley]

3 hours ago, Mark Hone said:

We tried to eat at the Basilique but it was closed that day, although being recce'ed by the Australian embassy complete with soldier driver. As posted above we subsequently ate in a nearby restaurant, second to the Basilique on TripAdvisor and it was pretty ghastly.

We ate at the "second place" a few years back, also when the Basilique was closed. Whilst I wouldnt necessarily call the experience ghastly, I'd rather go to McDonalds than return.

[Mark Hone]

John-we did precisely that!

[Joe Toy]

I have been visiting the British Great War Western Front battlefields since the late 1980's and for me, it has to be the Somme.

 

Comparing a modern ordnance survey map of today with 1916 trench maps, little has changed in 100 years. The roads, tracks and woods are identical with the exception of the odd new by-pass road, the IBIS hotel by Bapaume Post MC and of course, the inevitable McDonalds !

 

Ypres and the Salient has its own charms such as the Menin Gate etc but the whole battlefield area has largely been built upon with housing, industrial estates and shopping centres and such'I find it difficult to clearly establish where even the front lines were positioned. This is definitely not the case with the Somme.

 

ACCOMMODATION

For many visits over the years I have stayed in most of the establishments in or close to Albert none of which were exactly inspiring, until I discovered the delights of Peronne. Being situated less than a 15 minute drive from the southern end of the British Line at Maricourt and around 30 mins from the northern tip at Gommecourt, I find Peronne an ideal centre in terms of charm, convenient location, restaurants/bars and accommodation at the Hotel Saint Claude.

 

The Hotel Saint Claude is located just off the main square and offers clean, comfortable inexpensive en-suite accommodation (€72.00 per night for a small single over the July 1st period) with an excellent bar and restaurant serving an substantial breakfast at €11.50 and a set three-course dinner at €18.00 as well as a-la-carte if preferred. The bonus is that Rahul (Owner) and Amelie (Manager) both speak excellent English and are so very kind and helpful. I have stayed there many times now both as an individual along with escorting small groups all of whom have nothing but praise for the hotel. On our last group we had a four-star Admiral and his wife who were also delighted with the venue. If anyone wants contact details, send me a message and I will put you in touch with them.

 

Just around the corner and opposite the famed Historial de la Grande Guerre museum is one of the many Peronne restaurants - Le Bistrot Antoine which again serves, excellent food at reasonable prices.

 

Hope this helps !

 

Malcolm

 

 

Edited 20 January , 2018 by Joe Toy

[stiletto_33853]

On 19 July 2016 at 15:29, Chris_Baker said:

 

Now add a layer of Great War tourism.

 

Ypres, and the Flanders region in general, has grasped the business opportunity that battlefield tourism represents. It is easier and quicker to reach from the UK; on the route to/from more southerly parts of Europe; and near the tourist honeypot of Bruges. Personally, I very much dislike what it has done to Ypres and the battlefield, but that's life.

 

Albert and Picardie haven't done that - at least, with anything like the investment that's gone into Flanders. It's left Albert pretty much as it was 30 years ago: a sprinkling of hotels and bars aimed at the Brits, but otherwise a small working town. I can only imagine that the centenary opportunities were examined very carefully by the local region, and they've done what they have - which doesn't seem too much. Other than the Thiepval visitor centre and the odd development here and there, the battlefield is scarcely changed since I first went - and I like that. Again personally I have never been terribly taken with Albert as a place to stay. If I am in the area I will always stay in Arras or St-Quentin for preference. But hey ho, that's my preference and others will think differently.

 

Have to agree with Chris totally. Ypres for me is a place to be avoided during the summer months, but visit say late October through to April only (next trip to Ypres last week of October). Having said that the Somme I avoid during June and July also for obvious reasons and visit say Cambria/St. Quentin or Arras area if touring at the height of Summer, where usually not a soul is to be seen walking the battlefields.

I did visit Ypres last July 30th for two days only, it just confirmed why I do not visit Ypres during the summer. I really object to having a pleasant evening eating a meal on the square to a group of, in this case drunken Welshman trying to serenade the crowds, (part of a choir), not to say anything bad about the Welsh, this was used just as an example.

On the Somme, many a time have I stood on September 15th on the outskirts of Delville Wood overlooking the battlefield with not a soul around, or very few that do not intrude on one's thoughts. As Malcolm has said in the previous post tracks, farm roads and woods are more or less exactly as they were as if time had stood still which has an endearing quality which I personally like.

Just my thoughts, a policy which has served me well over the decades of visiting.

 

Andy

[Michelle Young]

I rarely visit the Somme or Ypres for more than a day at a time, usually when staying at Loos, around Arras or Cambrai. Always use gites de France self catering. If I do have aSomme stop over I prefer to stay at the excellent Le Clos du Clocher  chambre d'hotes at Gueudecourt. I find acommodation very expensive in Belgium. We have a budget of max €70 a night for Chambre d'hotes, you can find 3 epis rated places for this or less in France. I've only stayed once in the Ariane, I hadn't booked it I was part of a tour. Personally I couldn't really see what the fuss was all about. I had an overheated twin room. 

We also prefer to self cater or stay in chambre d'hotes which offer table d'hotes. That way no one has to be the designated driver. 

[Petroc]

I must admit to a distinct preference for the Somme area. We've always stayed in Albert (apart from one year in Peronne) and I have a real affection for the little town...a real working town with little pandering to tourists. Yes, bars and restaurants are sometimes hit-and-miss, but hey-ho, that's exactly the same in my own home town in the UK during winter and spring! Always had good times in Thierry's pub the 'Three Pigeons' next to the Basilica. As for the battlefields themselves, though I love touring the Ypres, Arras and Loos areas, the Somme still has an uncanny resonance which repeatedly draws me back. The fields tend to be quieter, somehow frozen in time, than in some of the other areas (although quiet parts are indeed to be found....this year we walked the Messines Ridge and encountered two cyclists, one tractor and a cat!). I do fret a little about Ypres city itself, a lady in a shop on Menenstraat we were talking to said that she was going to close as the city authorities had bumped-up the business rates on the back of the predicted visitor numbers during the 2014-18 period. Not sure if that is totally correct (perhaps a Belgian-based GWF member could confirm), but she seemed genuine enough and rather annoyed   

[keithfazzani]

I much "prefer" the Somme. There are parts where you can explore all day without meeting another soul, and you can see the topography of the battles much as it was 100 years ago. I usually stay at a B&B (The Silent Picket for preference) but have stayed at the IBIS which is clean, comfortable and well situated. I don't go for the food or other attractions (having said that the food is excellent at The Silent Picket). I find Ypres Disneyfied beyond hope, and if I visit it is usually for a short and specific reason. But as others have said, each to their own. 

[richardIII]

When I visit the battlefields it is to do just that!

I find the Somme is much more unspoilt and many of the famous sites are still as they were, eg the Sunken Lane at Beaumont Hamel, and Serre Memorial Park. When visiting them and many other sites on the Somme it is so easy to try to visualise just what happened there in the now peace and tranquility that exists. It seems that when visiting the Salient you are never out of sight of houses etc. and the famous places are much harder to identify.

So my preference is by far the Somme and with this in mind the accommodation becomes secondary. I always self cater and do not bother with hotels, in fact I love the Somme so much that I have a static caravan in Authuille.

Richard

[burlington]

What really gets me about visitors is that many expect 'high class' service. Essentially, all they need is a clean room, a shower, edible meals and, that, frankly is the lot. Plus of course a few beers or, in some cases, more than a few! Humble self excluded of course!

By the time you have done the 'job', I am sure you know what I mean. Which is a friendly welcome, a drink or two or more (no names, no pack drill!), a meal and BED!! 

Having now stirred the hornet's nest, I will retire to my well earned rest.

Seriously, to be quite honest, if you go to France, please do not expect perfection. Is 'home' perfect? No, of course not! You cannot expect the UK to be migrated to Northern France! Accept it for what it is. Often quite chaotic but still a place to be.

Martin

[angelab]

+1 here for The Silent Picket B&B, and excellent evening meals!

 

I have also stayed at the renovated Hotel de la Paix in Bapaume, which has a very good restaurant.

 

Angela

[Fattyowls]

I'd like to add my appreciation of the food at the Silent Picket in Martinpuich, and indeed the overall hospitality. If I am allowed back after the home made orange madeleine outrage I would not stay anywhere else, although I have heard good things about several of the other B&Bs. The stupendous breakfasts kept me going all day and I've hardly been able to eat a croissant in this country since the last time I was there. That said I've tended to stay in Arras if I am touring by car and we have driven down to the Somme. Ypres is a similar place to stay and De Ruyffelaer is my personal favourite eatery.

 

Pete.

[Gareth Davies]

I'll second De Ruyffelaer.