6th ALH ,Sergeant ,''Joe''

[pukman]

I am trying to identify the Sergeant of the 6th Australian Light Horse only known as ''Joe" .He has probably served on Gallipoli and in the Middle East ,and is wearing the rosette signifying he has earned his furlough back to Australia in 1918.The photo is taken in Sydney on his return .I found this photo in Invercargill ,New Zealand .I'm not sure if that's a clue but he may have New Zealand connections. I would be intrigued to know who he is ,and if any one can supply information to his identity ,it would be much appreciated .

 

Cheers Iain,

Facebook community page ''Unknown Warriors of the NZEF''

[Guest]

Mate,

 

My DB spits out these man who were named Joe, from the 6 LHR, and were Sgts and at Anzac;

 

BURGESS Joseph George 236 L/Cpl 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop revert Pte 7-15 (G) to Cpl B Sqn 3-17 to L/Sgt 3-18 to Sgt 5-18 later WWII
 

McGRATH Thomas Joseph 364 L/Cpl 6 LHR C Sqn B Troop to T/SQMS B Sqn 6-15 to Cpl - L/Sgt 8-15 (G) to T/RQMS RHQ 3-17 rtn to SQMS B Sqn 4-17 to RQMS RHQ 1-18
 

RINGROSE Edward John Joseph 736 Pte 6 LHR 2R tos B Sqn C Troop 4-15 (G) DCM - for his actions at Amman 27-3-18 to L/Cpl 3-18 to Cpl 8-18 to L/Sgt 1-19

SHERIDAN Thomas Joseph 313 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop to L/Cpl 10-15 to Cpl 11-15 (G) to L/Sgt 11-17 to Sgt 12-17 MM - reason not stated brother Percy 6 LHR

THOMPSON Henry Joseph 53 Sad/Sgt 6 LHR RHQ revert Pte A Sqn 5-15 to Cpl 8-15 to Sgt A Sqn 9-15 MM - for his work with bombs at Wilson's Lookout 25-11-15 recom - for his good work and was in the last party (C 3) to leave Anzac 19/20-12-15 (G) (Boer War 3 VIB (579)

TROY Richard Joseph 734 Pte 6 LHR 2R tos C Sqn 4-15 (G) to L/Cpl 8-16 to Cpl 10-17 to Sgt C Sqn 1-18 to SSM C Sqn? 1-19

 

to add these men also served with the 6 LHR;

 

GIBBINS Martin Joseph 541 Pte 12 LHR C Sqn att DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 (G) to L/Cpl 7-16 (B) to Cpl 4 Troop? 11-17 to T/Sgt 7-18 revert 8-18 to T/Sgt 2-19 revert 5-19 later WWII
 

added to these man who are named Joseph, and 6 LHR;

 

COOKE Frederick Joseph 33 Pte 6 LHR RHQ to Dvr A Sqn C Troop 12-14 shown WIA 6-7-15 face L/eye minor shrapnel reported no losses today at No 1 Southern sect trenches near Holly Spur (G) stowaway to UK 5-16 to 13 LH Dtls UK 6-16 disch 11-12-16 MU defective eyesight AKA Frederick Joseph Cook brothers John 1 FAB and Thomas 4Bn KIA
EVANS Charles Joseph 109 Pte 6 LHR A Sqn C Troop (G) to Dvr 58Bty/15 FAB 3-16 to 9Bty/3 FAB 1-17 F&B
LINAHAN Joseph Andrew 222 Sig 6 LHR B Sqn SHQ (G) to Gnr 58Bty/15 FAB 3-16 to 54Bty/14 FAB 4-17 WIA 26-7-17 L/hand & thigh shrapnel reported 4 wounded suporting the British around Ypres rtn 6-18 F&B AKA Joseph Andrew Lenehan later WWII Cpl 2 Field Survey Co RAE brother John NZEF
BURGESS Joseph George 236 L/Cpl 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop revert Pte 7-15 (G) to Cpl B Sqn 3-17 to L/Sgt 3-18 to Sgt 5-18 later WWII
CARROLL Austin Isidore Joseph  255 Dvr MT 6 LHR 1R tos RHQ (667) 3-15 remain Egypt disch 14-1-16 MU VD
HUGHES Paul Michael Joseph 271 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop (G) disch 7-5-18 MU
KELLY Horatio Joseph 278 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop to Cpl 10-15 WIA 16-11-15 L/leg bomb one of two wounded at Ryries Post (G) disch 21-9-16 MU cardiac & frost bite brothers Lindsay 7 LHR and Victor GSR
CRAVEN Francis Joseph 358 Cpl 6 LHR C Sqn D Troop (G) to 11Co/3Bn ICC 4-17 to LH Dtls 7-18 to 5 LH Sig Troop 9-18 later WWII Spr RAE brother Albert 2 LH Sig Troop
CREER Errol Joseph Hart 392 Pte 6 LHR C Sqn B Troop to L/Cpl WIA 12-7-15 shoulder, leg & throat shot in demo by Lt Ferguson from Holly Spur (G) died on HS "Gascon" 3 miles off Gapa Tepe NKG listed on Lone Pine Memorial Gallipoli brother Harry 7 FAB
DALEY Thomas Joseph 400 Pte 6 LHR 1R att ARU 2-15 to A Sqn 4-15 tos A Sqn 8-15 (G) to Dvr 53Bty/15 FAB 3-16 to 60Bty 5-16 to 25 FAB 9-16 WIA 12-16 reported shell shock at Ginchy F&B to AIF depots Hurdcott UK 4-17 disch 4-3-18 MU shell shock Ex C Troop CSqn/6 LHR DNE AKA alais Thomas Joseph Daly
AUSBURN Harold Joseph 571 Pte 6 LHR 1R tos C Sqn 2-15 (G) WIA 3-12-17 minor during raid on Bald Hill to L/Cpl 2-18 recom - for his actions at Amman 28-3-18 to T/Cpl 9-18
CALDWELL Joseph 630 Pte 6 LHR RHQ AAMC Medical Orderly (G) to 1 FAmb 8-16 F&B disch 3-7-18 MU cardiac
CASEY John Joseph 638 A/Cpl 6 LHR 1R tos B Sqn 2-15 shown WIA 29-5-15 head/face & hand bomb reported WIA 30-5-15 in trenches with 1 wounded att 2Bn at Lone Pine (G) to Dvr Transport RHQ 7-15 to NME UK plumbing
HAMMOND William Joseph 714 Pte 6 LHR 2R Tos MG Sect 4-15 tos MG Sect 7-15 (G) to 13 MG Co 3-15 to 13 Bde HQ 10-16 rtn Dvr 13 MG Co to 4 MG Bn 3-18 WIA 8-8-18 minor at Amiens recom MSM awarded MM for his actions at Hamel 5-7-18 and at Morcourt 8-8-18 F&B Ex HCo/1Bn AN&MEF (844) disch 18-1-15 (CMF 2 years)
DOYLE Patrick Joseph 926 Sgt 6 LHR 5R tos C Sqn 10-15 WIA 1-12-15 R/arm minor shot reported three wounded at Chathams Post (G) to 57Bty/15 FAB 3-16 to BSM 25 FAB 7-16 to 114Bty/14 FAB 1-17 to 53Bty 1-18 Special Mention in Aust Corps Orders - for his actions under fire at Corbie 24-4-18 to T/RSM 9-18 MSM - for his work as T/RSM during operations Sept 1918 F&B (British Colonial Forces 7 years)
CORNISH Herbert Joseph 933 Pte 6 LHR 5R tos B Sqn 8-15 WIA 6-8-15 R/hand shrapnel reported 6 wounded (same day he arrived at the Regt) in trenches Southern Sect No 1 at Ryries Post (G) disch 5-11-17 brother Westley 6 LHR
FRANKLIN Richard Joseph 943 Pte 6 LHR 5R remain Egypt tos Dvr RHQ 12-15 WIA 20-3-18 arm & hand accident run over by GS wagon to YMCA 3 LH Bde HQ 6-18 later WWII
CHRISTIE Henry Joseph 1065 Pte 6 LHR 6R tos A Sqn A Troop 10-15 (G) to L/Cpl 9-16 killed in raid on Bald Hill NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine
WATT Joseph Samuel 341A Far/Sgt 6 LHR C Sqn SHQ remain Egypt MID - reason not stated possibly at Romani to Far/QMS RHQ 9-17 disch 22-11-18 (Boer War ACo/NSWIB (1318) to Far/Sgt 3 NSWIB (191) AKA Watts
THOMPSON Henry Joseph 53 Sad/Sgt 6 LHR RHQ revert Pte A Sqn 5-15 to Cpl 8-15 to Sgt A Sqn 9-15 MM - for his work with bombs at Wilson's Lookout 25-11-15 recom - for his good work and was in the last party (C 3) to leave Anzac 19/20-12-15 (G) (Boer War 3 VIB (579)
SHERIDAN Thomas Joseph 313 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop to L/Cpl 10-15 to Cpl 11-15 (G) to L/Sgt 11-17 to Sgt 12-17 MM - reason not stated brother Percy 6 LHR
WOODS Joseph 325 Pte 6 LHR B Sqn A Troop WIA 26-7-15 L/knee shrapnel at Southern Section No.1 Trenches working at Ryries Post (G) to Co Rlwy Constr RE 6-17 rtn 10-17 to T/Cpl 9-18
McGRATH Thomas Joseph 364 L/Cpl 6 LHR C Sqn B Troop to T/SQMS B Sqn 6-15 to Cpl - L/Sgt 8-15 (G) to T/RQMS RHQ 3-17 rtn to SQMS B Sqn 4-17 to RQMS RHQ 1-18
McGUINESS Joseph 602 S/Smith 6 LHR C Sqn to Far/Cpl 1-15 remain Egypt to Far/Sgt C Sqn 5-17 disch 7-12-18 MU
McGUINNESS William Joseph 664 Sig 6 LHR 1R Tos B Sqn 2-15 tos B Sqn 7-15 (G) to MG Sect? to Sig HQ/15 FAB 3-16 to Gnr 12 BAC 1-17 to 45Bty/12 FAB 9-17 to 47Bty/12 FAB 8-18 F&B Ex Sig RHQ/6 LHR (13) to 2R/6 LHR (685) DNE AKA McGuiness
PORTER Cyril Joseph 665 Pte 6 LHR 1R tos B Sqn 2-15 on the Southland when it was torpedoed near Gallipoli 21-8-15 (G) to 3Bn 3-16 to Gnr 1 LTMB 4-16 F&B to depots UK 3-17 to AProvC Tidworth UK 7-17 disch 21-3-18 MU (* why on Southland?)
TROY Richard Joseph 734 Pte 6 LHR 2R tos C Sqn 4-15 (G) to L/Cpl 8-16 to Cpl 10-17 to Sgt C Sqn 1-18 to SSM C Sqn? 1-19
RINGROSE Edward John Joseph 736 Pte 6 LHR 2R tos B Sqn C Troop 4-15 (G) DCM - for his actions at Amman 27-3-18 to L/Cpl 3-18 to Cpl 8-18 to L/Sgt 1-19
MALONEY Joseph Richard 800 Pte 6 LHR 3R tos C Sqn 4-15 WIA 19-9-15 R/foot shrapnel reported 2 wounded when Turks demo along the front near the trenches Southern Sect No 1 at Ryries Post (G) to Cook 9-17
O'BRIEN William Joseph 1091 Pte 6 LHR 7R tos B Sqn 10-15 to A Sqn 10-16 to AProvC Cairo 12-17 to A/Cpl MMP 2 LH Bde HQ 1-18 to ER 2/Cpl 2-19 rtn 6 LHR 6-19 AKA served as William James
 

That's all I can find given the paremitiers you give, the only connection to NZ I can see at first look is LINAHAN Joseph Andrew but he was not a Sgt?

 

While CALDWELL Joseph is the only one with a NOK as in NZ?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[pukman]

Well Steve , what a great list  !! .Having read Joseph George Burgess ,236 ,army file .I think he could be a distinct possibility .While not clear unless under a high definition scan ,the Sergeant is wearing an unofficial 6th ALH cap badge .I am wondering if the A on his upper shoulder means A squadron ??.He also has an Uncle Ted (Edward ) and Aunty Louie (Louise /Louisa ) . Gee are there any genealogist out there ?? .Could solve this one!!

 

Thanks Steve

[Guest]

Mate,

 

The "A" means he was an Anzac, during the war the AIF intro this award to all Gallipoli veterns, a bit like the red 1914 stripe on the overseas badge.

 

Anzac veterns wore this award on their colour patch, the colour patch would be the present unit, not what unit he served with on Anzac, unless they were the same unit.

 

Because as the war went on many men moved around the AIF, so the unit they were in 1915, may have change by 1919.

 

Cheers

S.B

[pukman]

Joseph Burgess was a Gallipoli veteran ,a Sergeant with a 6 ALH on his return home .He doesn't appear to have any wound stripes or medal bars (which matches his profile) ,so he would be a firm candidate .

Thanks for the info

Cheers Iain

[frev]

According to John Ross, who uploaded the same photo to the attached service record (see link below) - Joseph George Burgess is your man!

http://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/person/105632

Cheers, Frev

 

[pukman]

Wow ,thanks to you both ,this is a great result .I am used to tracking down unidentified 1st NZEF soldiers ,so this A.I.F soldier is a first

 

 

Thanks Iain

 

Facebook community page  ''Unknown Warriors of the NZEF''

[Jeff Pickerd]

Iain,

 

Very pleasing to to see that Frev has confirmed your suspicion that the man is indeed Sgt Joe Burgess, a thought that I was drawn to as well, seeing as he was possibly the only candidate from Steve's list. It is interesting that Thomas Joseph McGrath returned to Australia for his six months long service leave on the same ship as did Sgt Burgess, but McGrath had to be excluded seeing as he was RQMS upon his return. All of the others of Steve's beginning list had some form of gallantry medal, since the photograph depicted no gallantry medal ribbon, that excluded all of those to be the candidate for the photo.

 

To go back to your earlier questions of Steve, the badge on Sgt Burgess' slouch hat is the AIF Rising Sun hat badge, the universal and official hat badge of all AIF forces.

 

To add further to the question of the Anzac "A", from the AWM web site the following is given: 

"Australian Imperial Force orders by Lt. Gen. Sir W. R. Bird wood, Headquarters, Australian Imporial Force, 6th November 1917.

937. Badges - Gallipoli Service.

The following Military Order, issued by the Department of Defence, Melbourne, is published for the information " Members of the Australian Imperial Force" who served on Gallipoli, will be entitled to wear over their unit "Clour Patchs" on both sleeves of the Service Dress jacket and Greatcoat the letter "A" as an indication that the wearer had taken part in the operations on the Gallipoli Peninsula.

The provisions of the above will apply to all members of the Australian Imperial Force who come within scope of the order.

OC Units will indent on ADOS, Administration Headquarters AIF, 130 Horseferry Road, London, for necessary supplies.

(Authoity, DAG, AIF,15/86 of 29-19-17)

 

Another point this - the Long Servce Rosettes were not issued to entitled men for six months home leave until mid 1918.

 

Jeff

 

 

[pukman]

Hi Jeff ,thanks for your input .While I have had an interest in 1st NZEF badges and insignia for many decades ,unfortunately my knowledge on A.I.F. equivalent subject   is fairly basic .

 

Under high definition the 6th ALH unofficial cap badge is on Joe Burgess's hat ,which was a starting point .He has the Rising Sun cap badge on the left side (as worn) of his felt hat The other factors ,and a fair bit of luck  with Steve and Frev submitting information ,found a positive identification .

 

This is the 24th positive identification of unidentified soldiers (all NZEF, with this on the exception ) ,from my small portrait collection for 2016!!

 

Cheers for your help everyone !!

 

Cheers Iain

 

My invitation is to anyone seeking to find unidentified NZEF soldiers from WW1 .Either go to my Face Book page ''Unknown Warriors of the NZEF'' or PM me and I will do my best to find an identification for you .

 

The second image is on Joe Burgess's hat

Edited 20 July , 2016 by pukman

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thanks Iain for the high resolution photo of the 6th LH badge, I could not see this from the photograph attached.

Your reference to the hat through me, definitely the Rising Sun AIF hat badge on the down turned brim, but the puggaree seemed to have nothing attached when the photograph was enlarged.

The 6th LH Rgt AIF Fight on Fight ever is not an official AIF badge but obviously widely used by men of the regiment, it appears on the cover of the unit history "Under Furred Hats".

 

Steve would no more about this than I, he is New South Welshman.

 

Thanks for originally putting up the photo, all been most interesting.

 

cheers,

Jeff

[mancpal]

One of the reasons I like this forum has been highlighted by this thread. An Australian soldier is identified when previously known as Joe. How many AIF Joes were there?,good result

 

Simon

[pukman]

Thanks Jeff ,I  have just discovered he has a war diary online  ww1.sl.nsw.gov.au/content/joseph-george-burgess

[pukman]

[Guest]

I just found this,  this is my Great Grandfather Joseph Burgess from the 6th Light horse regiment. If anyone would like to know anything about him feel free to ask.