London Regiment cloth shoulder titles and patches

[Drew-1918]

5 minutes ago, Dragoon said:

Great to see this thread back, and a nice title Chris.

Life does get in the way of the things we like to do!

Cheers 

 

Chris

 

Thanks, Chris. It certainly does, eh!

 

Chris

[Dragoon]

On 06/12/2019 at 14:38, Drew-1918 said:

 Illustration added to post No. 68. 

 

 

Sorry Chris, that should be post 168

 

Chris

[Drew-1918]

What am I doing with my digits recently.  

 

Thanks for the correction. Now amended. 

 

Chris

[Drew-1918]

 

From The Kensingtons at Laventie

Original iconic painting is at Source: IWM Collection

One of the patches in Mark's collection seen being worn. This scene dates to early 1915 which is quite early for cloth patches in general. 

[Grovetown]

On 05/12/2019 at 21:37, mark holden said:

Badges attributed to RQMS SR Summerford of 1/13th Londons and 2/16th Londons. The red square patches don't match with either battalion but came in his effects.

 

Regards

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Lovely group Mark.

 

Even lovelier perhaps if you can find 'em on a jacket...

 

 

[mark holden]

GT, smashing jacket. Interesting to note the orientation of the battalion patch which is in a different direction from that illustrated digitally in the Military Mode publication. Is the jacket still in your collection? I am interested to know if the lanyard is just a standard khaki colour or has a pink/red hue. I ask because with Summerford’s badges was a faded red lanyard.

 

kind regards 

 

Mark

[Grovetown]

4 minutes ago, mark holden said:

GT, smashing jacket. Interesting to note the orientation of the battalion patch which is in a different direction from that illustrated digitally in the Military Mode publication. Is the jacket still in your collection? I am interested to know if the lanyard is just a standard khaki colour or has a pink/red hue. I ask because with Summerford’s badges was a faded red lanyard.

 

kind regards 

 

Mark

 

Still mine thanks.

 

My understanding of the 'missing cheese' is that the position rotated according to battalion/ seniority in the brigade. The MM book is very good, yet not foolproof.

 

And this jacket came from there, via Tocemma and Wainfleet (IIRC) over the years. According to the latter, this jacket first turned up in Bermondsey Antique Market 40 - 50 years ago. It's named but illegibly and, one day, I hope to apply enhancement software to see if it can be deciphered.

 

The lanyard is plain old khaki.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

[mark holden]

Thanks GT as always.

[Drew-1918]

On 24/11/2018 at 10:24, Drew-1918 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

A quick sketch from a pair of 19th London cloth titles that just sold for £392. 😯 They seem to

be similar to the above examples posted previously. 
 

[Ipcress]

Am i right in thinking this is a Rangers cloth shoulder title ?

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Ipcress said:

Am i right in thinking this is a Rangers cloth shoulder title ?

 

Yes. See: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/241362-london-regiment-cloth-shoulder-titles-and-patches/

 

Edited 5 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Ipcress]

Thanks, Frogsmile.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, Ipcress said:

Thanks, Frogsmile.

Always glad to help 👍

[Dragoon]

Nice to see this thread again, hats off to Chris ( Drew-1918 ) for starting it.

I've just had a good look through again.

Really interesting.

Chris

[Ipcress]

The soldier in the above picture was called William Butler, from East London with family called Ada and May. He was in Amiens in 1917.

I found a William Butler 2870 but the regiment looks wrong;  a Herbert William Butler 701872 whose mother's Christian name started with A.

Also one who started in the 20th and was the Rifle Brigade.

 

( the buttons on his tunic are rifle regiment )

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Ipcress said:

The soldier in the above picture was called William Butler, from East London with family called Ada and May. He was in Amiens in 1917.

I found a William Butler 2870 but the regiment looks wrong;  a Herbert William Butler 701872 whose mother's Christian name started with A.

Also one who started in the 20th and was the Rifle Brigade.

 

( the buttons on his tunic are rifle regiment )

The Rangers were a rifles styled regiment and did observe black insignia and buttons, but I’m guessing you know that.

[Ipcress]

Yes, thanks. Just haven't as yet checked to see where those regiments were end of 1916 / early 1917 ( i'm multi tasking and have about thirteen tabs open on my browser !! )

but i'll look after lunch.

 

[Drew-1918]

Thanks, everyone. It has been hard to get on here this year. 

 

Chris

[Ewan D]

Hi all, silly question, but when did the London Regiment start to wear cloth shoulder titles? Thanks in advance.

 

[Drew-1918]

Hello Ewan,

Not a silly question at all. 

I think the titles really started to appear around 1916-17. However, you do sometimes see them a bit earlier.

There is a thread on this site called, ‘pre-war cloth shoulder titles’. This thread may show some London units., in their previous guise as volunteer Bns., with the white on red shoulder titles. I am not sure if you mean just during the war though. 

I  should say that I have been a few years unable to continue with this type of research. I am starting to forget bits and pieces. Hopefully, someone else may be able to add a little more detail. 

I hope that helps a bit.

Chris 

[Ewan D]

15 hours ago, Drew-1918 said:

Hello Ewan,

Not a silly question at all. 

I think the titles really started to appear around 1916-17. However, you do sometimes see them a bit earlier.

There is a thread on this site called, ‘pre-war cloth shoulder titles’. This thread may show some London units., in their previous guise as volunteer Bns., with the white on red shoulder titles. I am not sure if you mean just during the war though. 

I  should say that I have been a few years unable to continue with this type of research. I am starting to forget bits and pieces. Hopefully, someone else may be able to add a little more detail. 

I hope that helps a bit.

Chris 

Hi Chris. 

Thanks for getting back to me. I've browsed through this thread many times prior to making my GWF account. I've found the work that you and others have put into this thread outstanding. one of my great great uncles joined the Post Office Rifles in early 1916, so I'm very grateful that such a place exists for me to see what insignia he would of worn. 

[Drew-1918]

Hi Ewan,

That’s great to hear. Your comments are much appreciated. 

 

[Mike_H]

 

Chris

One small piece of information, the regimental history of the LRB mentions the issue of their cloth LRB titles in June1915 and the Queen Vic's history says the QVR tiles were introduced in October  1915.

A word of agreement with Ewan, your work on the London Regiment is much appreciated, a great help 

Mike

[Drew-1918]

Hi Mike,

That’s great. Thanks so much for those bits of detail. Really useful to know.
You have helped a lot with this topic and thread, so thanks due to you, too.

Cheers,

Chris

[poona guard]

On 10/12/2016 at 15:05, Steve B said:

Chris,

 

Just to add to the debate about the 10th London Regiment, I've acquired a fair number of photographs of both the 1/10th and 2/10th over the years, but only one of them shows any specific cloth shoulder title being worn. As you can see from the picture below (date unknown), the curved bar worn at the top of the shoulder would tie in the the IWM example of a green curved bar for HQ Company, 2/10th Londons. I have had a good look using a magnifying glass and there seems to be no lettering embroidered on this patch.

 

 

 

 

The reference to small coloured patches for the rifle Companies of the 2/10th Londons in the IWM collection is intriguing and I can't say that I have ever seen any images with them being worn. 

 

More pictures to follow.................

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Steve,

Please could I use this photo in my third book on Great War badges?You will of course be credited.

Best,

Dave Bilton