London Regiment cloth shoulder titles and patches

[Drew-1918]

Latest changes to the images. I had planned to keep updating the OP, but in order to make the images larger/clearer, I needed to separate across a number of posts. 

Edit: See post #47 for images. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 December , 2016 by Drew-1918

[Drew-1918]

This title is shown in Chappell & Westlake’s  British Territorial Units 1914-18, and I have not seen it before. 

 

 

I wondered if perhaps this ST was cut down into a T-shaped arc. Presumably somebody would have to cut down the arc-shaped style of ST when it was used by a battalion, whether it be at point of production, by the QM, or by the men themselves before sewing onto their uniforms. 

 

For comparison see the following illustration based on one held at the IWM:

 

 

[Drew-1918]

An interesting GWF post on London Rgt RF cloth shoulder titles:

Royal Fusilier Shoulder Titles

[Drew-1918]

And here are some soldiers with 2nd London Rgt cloth shoulder titles:

 

 

*An identical photo of the second soldier has been posted by High Wood on the British & Commonwealth Badge Forum in the past. He is identified as Cpl James Gartside Billington, 2/2nd London Bn.

 

Edited 19 October , 2020 by Drew-1918
New information

[badjez]

Sorry for coming late to the party but I've just seen the post by tocemma. I think the red inverted triangle and three bars is a WW2 combination sign: the red triangle I'm unsure of, maybe a R Berks TF Bn, and the three bars indicating the junior Brigade to which they were attached.

 

Otherwise, a first class thread.

 

Stephen.

 

[Drew-1918]

On Saturday, August 06, 2016 at 22:00, Drew-1918 said:

 

Hello,

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what colour this title might be? I had assumed that it was red on dark blue, but was just wondering if the background colour might be khaki. I thought that the way the lettering disappears against the background might indicate red on dark blue, but then again, I have occasionally seen dark khaki ones. Also, I am a bit confused as to the way dark blue appears in old photos. Sometimes it seems quite light, and sometimes it looks dark. 

 

Stephen, 

Thanks a lot for your thoughts on those signs. 

 

Chris

 

 

[Drew-1918]

I have seen this replica cloth ST on an ebay before, but have not seen the black background anywhere else, for this battalion. It would be interesting to know where they got their information from. 

 

 

Edited 29 November , 2016 by Drew-1918
Extra detail about source

[Steven Broomfield]

I'd agree that the London/Gordon/Scottish title is post-GW. The official affiliation with the Gordons wasn't made until after the Great War (can't remember when, off-hand), so it would be unlikely to pre-date that.

 

I'd also think the thistle on Hodden patch from tocemma is WW2. It was worn, I think, until the regiment went into 1/51 Highland, or even later. i remember a picture on the front of Airfix Magazine in the 70's, showing a Mobat team of the LS, wearing (IIRC) the green pre-DPM kit, with ToS, Hodden/thistle patch and 51 'HD' badge. I hope I'm not imagining that!

[Drew-1918]

Thanks a lot for the clarification there. Very interesting stuff. 

[Drew-1918]

Just found this by Googling. Previously sold on ebay and described as, "Pre-WW2 London Scottish Gordon Highlander cloth slip-on shoulder title". Further confirmation of what you say. 

 

 

 

Edited 29 November , 2016 by Drew-1918
More information on source

[Drew-1918]

Another great photograph from the IWM Bond of Sacrifice Collection. A very poignant set of portraits. 

Sgt. Brian Needell, 1/5th Battalion London Regiment, (London Rifle Brigade).

IWM link

 

The saleroom.com

 

A couple more from the IWM. Voltigeur over at the BCMB Forum kindly found these for me. 

Sergeant Belcher VC, L.R.B.

 

Rfn. Robert W. Barneveld, KiA 27th May 1918

Edited 24 May , 2017 by Drew-1918
To add photographs

[Drew-1918]

Battalion patches for 1916/17

 

Mark Holden's example of title and patch

 

 

 

*For sources see post #21

 

Edited 24 May , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

Courtesy of 'Jelly Terror', BCMB Forum.

 

 

 

 

[Drew-1918]

6th Bn. patches for 1916/17

 

 

Edited 13 May , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

I saw the following on an auction site the other day. I do not know if it dates from WW1:

 

 

 

[Drew-1918]

Private E. R. Dowson, 3/7th London Regiment

 

 

From my own collection

Edited 12 December , 2017 by Drew-1918
Clarity of image

[Drew-1918]

 

Battalion patches 1916/17

 

 

"7th Bn." GWF Postcards Thread post #565 by Robins2

 

Edited 14 May , 2017 by Drew-1918
#2Additional information re source. #2 To add patches #3 To add a link

[wainfleet]

On 18/09/2016 at 14:32, Drew-1918 said:

I have seen this replica cloth ST on an auction site before, but have not seen the black background anywhere else, for this battalion. It would be interesting to know where they got their information from. 

 

 

 

I have seen an original one like this, years ago and I think on Military Antiques' website. Didn't save the photos though so it's up to you whether you trust my word / my memory / my ability to tell the real thing. I'm ok with all three but then I would say that!

[Drew-1918]

Thank you very much, Sir. That's more than good enough for me! Very good to be able to add another one. 

 

Chris

 

8th Bn. Post Office Rifles

 

From my own collection

 

 

 

Cloth shoulder title posted by Grovetown, post #7 here

 

Here are the Post Office Rifles patches for 1916/17

 

Edited 19 October , 2020 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

On 19/07/2016 at 23:03, wainfleet said:

An excellent effort. My only concern is the V London which I think may be VTC. I'll be happy to stand corrected though.

 

Came across the following postcard completely by accident. Is it not confirmation of what wainfleet was saying, above? Bit confused by the general service cap badge though. 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Information gained from post #4130 by Frogsmile in the Postcards thread:

 

"...I seem to recall that regimental badges were not adopted by VTC units until 1918, after a year of wearing the general service cap badge, which itself replaced the original proprietary badge..."

 

Many thanks

 

slip-on version of the same title. 

 

 

Edited 19 October , 2020 by Drew-1918
#1 Spelling #2 To add further photos

[Drew-1918]

1st - 4th Bns. R.F.

 

5th to 8th Bns.

 

9th - 12th Bns.

Edited 16 September , 2018 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

13th - 16th Bns.

 

 

17th - 20th Bns.

 

21st - 24th Bns.

 

Edited 13 September , 2018 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

25th - 34th Bns.

 

 

 

 

* Denotes written description only. Have not seen actual title.

Edited 13 September , 2018 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

1/9th London Regiment

 

 

From my own collection

 

1916/17

 

9th London Regiment.

 

From the wonderful collection, The Vignacourt Photographs, as featured on the 'One Show'

Here

Edited 19 October , 2020 by Drew-1918
To add details about battalion patches

[Drew-1918]

9th London Rgt. From the same collection.

Here

 

(9th Bn. in 1918?)

 

Insignia on a 1/9th officer's brodie helmet, 1918 Post #133

Edited 30 May , 2017 by Drew-1918
To add details about battalion patches