Drew-1918 Posted 1 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2017 On 11/10/2017 at 23:26, Drew-1918 said: ...The following refers to insignia worn by the 1/22nd London Regiment: "1) March 1915 - Aug 1916, Nil 2) 1st Aug 1916 - 31st Oct 1916, Two coloured bands each 1" broad. Worn 1" apart on each sleeve at a distance of 4" from shoulder seam in jacket. Each Coy wore a different colour as below. A. Blue, B. Green, C. Red, D. Yellow. Pattern as per A Coy enclosed..." "...3) 31st Oct 1916 - 15th May 1917, Nil 4) From 15th May 1917 to present date [17.9.17], a diamond shaped piece of red cloth 2 1/2" x 2" worn on each arm at a distance of 1/2" from shoulder seam. A stripe of material 2" x 3/4" of the Coy colour as in (2) is worn 1" below the diamond by men doing Coy duty. Pattern as of A Coy enclosed." It appears that the familiar company bands, often seen in photographs of 47th Division men, were a second variation (1917), and that they had a slightly different design when first introduced (1916). I have at least seen the later ones worn by battalions in the 140th and 142nd Brigade. It would be good to see some evidence from the 141st Bde, too. 1/23rd Battalion London Regiment War Diary confirms (2), above: "Aug 7 1916....................................................................St. Riquier Companies donned distinguishing colours- .............A. Blue ........................................................................................B. Green ........................................................................................C. Red ........................................................................................D. Yellow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 1 December , 2017 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2017 (edited) I doubt if there are many, if any, photographs of men wearing these Coy colours, since they were only worn for about three months during the Battle of the Somme. Edited 1 December , 2017 by Drew-1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 London Regiment, Battalion patches, 1917-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KENDO Posted 21 July , 2018 Share Posted 21 July , 2018 Hi, The purple star of the 1/10 Bn was worn by officers on back of jacket and the ORs wore a purple patch two inches x one and a half inches worn on left side of pagri from time bn served in Gallipoli Jul - Dec 15. After that no patch worn til Mar 16 when red inverted triangle adopted. Regards Kendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 21 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2018 Hello there, Thanks very much for this very interesting and detailed information. Can I ask what shape the purple patch worn on the left side of the pagri was? If I remember correctly, there are two purple stars at the IWM and one is a bit bigger than the other. Perhaps this smaller one is the pagri patch you refer to. Many thanks again, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KENDO Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 Hi, the purple patch worn by other ranks was a horizontal rectangle 2" x 1 1/2". Regards, Kendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 23 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2018 Thanks very much, Kendo. That’s great. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 24 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2018 (edited) With thanks to KENDO for this information. Edited 24 July , 2018 by Drew-1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 25 July , 2018 Share Posted 25 July , 2018 Have you seen this post from the Soldiers part of the forum? 20 LR shoulder title? Haven't seen this feature on this thread yet, unless I've missed it? Hope this helps Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 25 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2018 (edited) Hello Chris, I had not seen that yet so I am very grateful to you for posting here. Thanks very much. This looks very similar to the other 2nd line battalion patches in its use of the abbreviation “LR”, and I think that is the battalion everyone is looking at. I would think the colours are buff on black, though they could also be red on black. Though red often comes up dark, it doesn’t always do so. This combination would also match 20th Bn regimental colours, which is the type of thing often seen represented in these titles. Many thanks again for posting here. This is a great addition to the thread. Best regards, Chris Edited 25 July , 2018 by Drew-1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 27 July , 2018 Share Posted 27 July , 2018 (edited) On 25/07/2018 at 15:10, Drew-1918 said: Hello Chris, I had not seen that yet so I am very grateful to you for posting here. Thanks very much. It looks very similar to the other 2nd line battalion patches in its use of the abbreviation “LR” which is the battalion I think everyone is looking at. I would think the colours are buff on black. They could also be red on black for although that colour often comes up dark it doesn’t always do so. This combination would match 20th Bn regimental colours which are often present in these titles. Many thanks again for posting here. This is a great addition to the thread. Best regards, Chris Thank you for starting this thread, I've been keeping an eye on it with great interest. Best wishes Chris Edited 27 July , 2018 by Dragoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 27 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2018 Many thanks, Chris. It’s very nice to know it is of interest. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 July , 2018 Share Posted 28 July , 2018 I echo that sentiment - great topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 28 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2018 Many thanks, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 5 August , 2018 Share Posted 5 August , 2018 I bought these on ebay a few years ago. The sign (minus backing cloth) is 2 inches across. The colour is distinctly maroon in real life but I've always assumed these are 23rd London. They feel genuine to me and the material has the kind of weave I like to see in WW1 patches. l can't tell whether they originally came on the khaki backing or if that's part of a sleeve they've been cut from. The coloured cloth is on some sort of paper backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 5 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2018 6 hours ago, wainfleet said: I bought these on ebay a few years ago. The sign (minus backing cloth) is 2 inches across. The colour is distinctly maroon in real life but I've always assumed these are 23rd London. They feel genuine to me and the material has the kind of weave I like to see in WW1 patches. l can't tell whether they originally came on the khaki backing or if that's part of a sleeve they've been cut from. The coloured cloth is on some sort of paper backing. Thank you very much indeed for posting here, it is great to see them. Much appreciated. We seem to have all the colours of the clubs! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 24 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 24 October , 2018 (edited) Recently I was very privileged to have been able to view a large collection of embroidered titles and patches belonging to 'Grey Brigade' (British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum). He has been collecting for over forty years and has a wealth of knowledge and expertise about such items. He was kind enough to let me view his collection and I have been able to add many more titles that I did not know about before. In addition, many of these titles came with medal groups and the provenance is quite clear. See update below and notes to follow. Added with thanks to 'Grey Brigade': Red on Khaki "1st London RF" Red on black "2nd London RF" Red on dark green 6th London "C.L.R.". Black on khaki 8th London "P.O.R." Black on khaki 21st London "F.S.R." Blue on khaki 21st London "2/21 L.R." *See also 3rd London below. 'Grey Brigade' has most of the other cloth titles I had already illustrated in this thread. In fact, many of the online 'auction site' images I had come across were for items in his collection. See following posts for other items from this excellent source. Also added from other sources: White on red "22nd Queens". This one was from an article in The Formation Sign, March 2018. This is an interesting example as, notwithstanding its somewhat early pre-war appearance, this combination of colours seems, to me at least, to be most reminiscent of the London Regiment during WWII. The article features a photograph of an officer with this title on a 'Great War' period style of uniform. It would be nice to see some more evidence of this particular title. 2/20th London Rgt. This image is presumed and is merely a best guess. See previous discussion in this thread. White on khaki "1st London RF". From a recent photograph acquisition. N.B. Work by Jelly Terror on the BCMB Forum seems to show this the London Scottish embroidered title was only worn by the second battalion. See here: London Scottish- shoulder title change Red on white 3rd London title also added with thanks to Grey Brigade. Previously missed. 22/6/19 Update- To add white on red "3rd (RES) LONDON". To add green on black "17th LONDON" (previously only found written description). Source: the-saleroom.com 20/7/19 Added 24th Queens from IWM 'Generic' Queen's title added as a possibility. Suggested titles are pictured lower down from the known WW1 titles. Edited 4 September , 2019 by Drew-1918 To add other titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 24 October , 2018 Share Posted 24 October , 2018 Chris - fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 25 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2018 Thanks, Mark. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 25 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2018 Following on from the previous posts, 'Grey Brigade' has also pointed out that although the 25th London Rgt. title above is described by the IWM as a shoulder title, it is sometimes seen worn as a pagri badge. See the following photograph from The London Cyclist Battalion, 1932. This particular photograph dates from the Punjab Riots, 1919. The more familiar pagri patch is the red circle worn on light blue background as below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 25 October , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 October , 2018 On 20/07/2016 at 08:29, tocemma said: Here are some examples I used to have. Sorry poor quality pre-digital photos. Serif letters on the Q.V.R. I also have a photo of an unworn pair of shoulder titles '2/3rd London Field Ambulance' Red serif letters on khaki. I'll dig it out for you. May have a few others too. I never did identify the Wat Tyler swords/daggers, the black I guess is a rifles unit not sure about the coloured one, but it was most likely one of a sequence, different highlight colours for other units. The London Scottish thistle was embroidered on hodden grey, that one might be post WW1 though. The red triangle and bomb are unrelated. Regards Tocemma The 56th London Division sword patch posted previously by Tocemma is possibly associated with the London Field Ambulance. The red edging to the sword pommel and guard is supposed to represent the different field ambulances; one red line being equivalent to the 2/1st, two red lines the 2/2nd and three red lines the 2/3rd LFA. The illustration below was based on originals in 'Grey Brigade's' collection. The information in this post also comes from him. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 10 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2018 (edited) Here are a few more from the above collection. I am not sure whether they are WW1 or not. Red on dark green "Q.V.R." Red on khaki "Q.V.R" Red on khaki "15th London". I would be grateful if anyone has any further information on these. More to follow. Edited 24 November , 2018 by Drew-1918 To reduce size of illustrations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Rogers Posted 19 November , 2018 Share Posted 19 November , 2018 Hi , as an amateur historian who enjoys researching ww1 and ww2 for people... I've been asked to try and confirm if a family photo has a soldier from the 2/23 London Regiment in it as they will then know that the picture they found is indeed their relative. If anyone can help if be grateful. I have a photo and a service card (Of sorts) and I know a few key facts about his service but is there anything distinctive about the tunic, belt buckle, shoulder etc of the 2/23 London Regiment Thanks in advance Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 19 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2018 Hello Lee, Sounds very interesting. There might be something we could tell from the tunic and shoulder title etc. It all depends. Would it be possible to show us the photograph? Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew-1918 Posted 24 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2018 A couple more illustrations based on the collection of Grey Brigade. The first is a slip-on shoulder title of a type I have not really seen before: It is similar to the more familiar metal shoulder titles. I have no idea of the date and would welcome suggestions. It is also similar to the following photograph I posted a few months back: '7th London' Badge query The following is very unusual, and again, I have no real idea of the date: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now