Trying to find the correct War Diary

[Kingygirl22]

I need to find the war diaries that cover '22nd Heavy RGA'  for period Oct 1916 - June 1918.  I am finding it difficult to understand the RGA unit names I should be using when trying to trace which diaries to look at.  In this case I can't find anything listed for 22nd Heavy, so I'm guessing the diary I need may come under another higher unit, maybe a brigade or HAG?  Can anyone help me identify which unit's diary I should be searching for at the archives in order to discover what 22nd Heavy were invovled in during this period? 

Many thanks

[Glen]

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/fa671e491af54095989dcd14b7b9640e

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Kingygirl

 

After the beginning of 1918, the activities of Heavy and Siege Batteries are usually to be found in the diary of the Brigade RGA (formerly a HAG) in which they were serving at the end of the war. The relevant diaries are all in the same box-file at Kew:

WO 95/387 13 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1915 Apr. - 1919 June  
WO 95/387 22 Heavy Battery Royal Garrison Artillery 1915 Aug. - Sept.  
WO 95/387 123 Heavy Battery Royal Garrison Artillery 1915 Mar. - 1916 Sept.  
WO 95/387 1/2 London Heavy Battery Royal Garrison Artillery 1915 Mar. - Oct.  
 

The reason that you were unable to find it before is probably the use of "22nd" rather than "22". This is a pitfall which trips everyone up the first time!

 

Ron

[Kingygirl22]

Many thanks both. That makes things a little clearer but researching men in artillery units is certainly a bit of a minefield for the uninitiated.   If I have corretly understood what you say then Ron, does that mean that if I want to follow 22 Heavy in 1918 I look up the diary for 13 Brigade RGA, as referenced above?  Sorry to labour the point but I just want to make sure I'm looking in the right place  Thanks again.

[Kingygirl22]

Notice you are researching the memorial board at Manchester Victoria station, Glen.  I have information on James Greenwood Collinge if it is of any interest to you.  

[Ron Clifton]

59 minutes ago, Kingygirl22 said:

If I have corretly understood what you say then Ron, does that mean that if I want to follow 22 Heavy in 1918 I look up the diary for 13 Brigade RGA, as referenced above?

Yes, that's right. You should be able to order a copy online (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) for £3.45.

 

Good luck!

 

Ron

[petwes]

KingyGirl

The 13th Brigade diary covers the period from 12/9/1917 onward so as Ron says covers 1918 .  I am not sure if you need to go back to 1916 but for the earlier periods you need 27 HAG from 19/3/1917 and 44 HAG from 6/9/1916.

[Kingygirl22]

Thanks again Ron.  Many thanks to Petwes too.  Yes, I do need to go further back, so your information is most useful.  

 

[Glen]

On 16/07/2016 at 23:37, Kingygirl22 said:

Notice you are researching the memorial board at Manchester Victoria station, Glen.  I have information on James Greenwood Collinge if it is of any interest to you.  

I have him as a clerk at Bacup, and a note that reads (taken from this post

James Greenwood Collinge, was the youngest son of Mr and Mrs James Collinge of 196 Newchurch Road Bacup. His parents were notified of his death by one of his friends, 2nd Corporal J Anderson, who was working in the same working party as James when he was killed six others being killed at the same time with several others wounded. James had enlisted on May 5th 1915, training at Lytham Blackpool, Yorkshire and Salisbury Plain before leaving to serve in Egypt where he served with the County Palatine artillery. After which he served in France, before enlistment he was a clerk in the employ of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway. He was survived by his parent’s three sisters and two brothers one of whom was serving at the time of his death.

if you can add any more details, I'd certainly be interested
 

[Kingygirl22]

I have a few more details that might be of use to you.  I'm sending a personal message

[Kingygirl22]

Can I return to this topic and ask for some more help please?

 I've downloaded the 13 Brigade RGA war diary that covers the correct period ( thanks go  to Ron Clifton for correct Archives reference which made finding the download so quick and easy).  My first thought on seeing it was what a difference between a Brigade diary and a Battalion one. No day to day general info that is always so interesting and useful. For the period I needed to cover the Brigade diary gives little more than totals of rounds fired, interesting stuff but of little use to me in this quest.  Will read said diary in more detail at my leisure. Within all the stats though there was an interesting nugget of information involving 22 Heavy that means I need to ask another question.  I am looking at 22 Heavy for the period middle of April to early May 1918. According to the diary, 22 Heavy left 13 Brigade on 26/27 April and rejoined 8/9th May.  Can anyone throw any light on where they might have gone?  Were they simply resting behind the lines or did they go to another Brigade? The gunner I am researching died on 3rd May 1918, his medical record says 'Died from Wounds (Gas Shell)' so I am trynig to find out where he was and what his unit were doing in the few months before he was killed.

 

Secondly - re my origianl query that started this thread  - much as I love it when you all step up with answers within minutes, I like to learn from you too so, how could I have found out that 22 Heavy were part of 13 Brigade RGA had I not been a member of this amazing forum?  Is there some magic way to find out? Sorry if that should be two separate posts.

[rflory]

Kingygirl22 wrote: "how could I have found out that 22 Heavy were part of 13 Brigade RGA had I not been a member of this amazing forum?  Is there some magic way to find out? "

 

It is not magic!  It is just having the right materials.  At The National Archives there are records under WO 95/5494 titled "Allocations of Heavy Batteries, RGA" that list each heavy battery and under which Heavy Artillery Group (HAG) or Heavy Brigade they served and the dates of that service.  There are similar records for Siege Batteries ("Allocations of Siege Batteries RGA") and for Army Field Brigades, RFA ("Allocations of Army Brigades, RH & RFA") in the same file.  Once you find the proper RGA Brigade for which you need the war diary you then need to look at "WO 95/Supplemental Finding Aids" for "Royal Garrison Artillery - Brigades (Heavy Artillery)" to find the WO 95 file that contains the proper war diary for that brigade.  As far as I am aware these files are not available digitally. I had a researcher photocopy them for me many years ago.

[petwes]

Further to rflory's comments above the good news is that all the Royal Garrison Artillery Brigade diaries for units serving in France have now been digitised and can be downloaded for the usual fee; (although split in parts for the larger files).  Search on the National Archives website Discovery and use the search string in the form XX Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery.  Enter the number of the brigade you want in place of the XX.  Do not put the number in ordinal format 19th, 23rd etc., just put the numbers in. 

Another way to search is use the handy war diary search tool on this website http://arcre.com/wdsearch.  Sometimes it is less fussy about the correct form of words. 

Regarding your comments about the difference between Brigade and Battalion (Battery)? diaries- persevere.  Some battery diaries  are very terse, for example ...Location "in the Field" "so many rounds" ... day after day. Others are worthy of publishing as novels.  The same applies with Brigade diaries.  Sometimes one of the diaries for another battery serving in the same Brigade or Group will provide further details particularly if you are searching for copies of operational orders. 

Finally for a bigger picture of events you can move up to the next level and search for the Corps diary under Commander Heavy Artillery.  There is no equivalent of Divisional Diaries for Garrison Artillery as the Brigades or Groups were allocated to Corps unlike Field and Horse Artillery.

 

Hope that helps

Good searching

Peter

[Kingygirl22]

Thank you both VERY much.  My comment about it being magic was, of course, tongue in cheek but I hadn't realised the papers were quite as organised as they obviously are.  This will be a huge help.  I never cease to be impressed at the depth of knowledge within the Forum.  If it weren't for folks like you it would take me years to find out where to look for things, never mind actualy finding the information I need.  You reallyy are an amazing group of people.