Attesting in August 1916 on AF B2512

[RussT]

Can someone help clarify this man's (John William Boland) attestation - see attached images.

 

I'm (reasonably) familiar with men attesting under the Derby Scheme (on Army Form B2512), being placed on Army Reserve B and then being mobilised later according to their Group.

 

This man appears to have attested in August 1916 and was mobilised in February 1917. These dates are late for the Derby Scheme aren't they? I understand the Military Service Act was by then very much in place.

 

I see his age (either on attestation in August 1916 or upon being mobilised in Feb 1917) was 18 years old - I can't help thinking this is relevant to the interpretation here.

 

How was attestation/mobilisation/call-up handled for men reaching their 18th year from early/mid 1916 onwards when the MSA was in force? Were they not deemed to have been automatically enlisted?

 

Hope someone has knowledge in this area to provide advice.

 

Regards,

 

Russ

 

 

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This man appears to have attested in August 1916 and was mobilised in February 1917. These dates are late for the Derby Scheme aren't they? I understand the Military Service Act was by then very much in place.

Certainly too late for a Derby man - the MSA was about 6 months old by the time he was attested.

A man was deemed to have been automatically enlisted in to the Class B reserve once he hit the relevant age - usually around the age of 18, gave or take a month, the paperwork would appear to have been sorted out for them.

As to why he was left so long in the Class B it's hard to say but I'd suspect he managed to apply for a deferment due to employment,

Craig

[kenf48]

The Group Scheme closed on 26 April 1916 but on the 5th May 1916 it reopened for certain categories of men, including men born in 1898.  A new  group, Group A was formed for all men born in 1898.  They could report to Recruiting Office from the 6th May for attestation under the scheme.  This Group closed 'absolutely ' on the 7th June 1916 for those who had attained the age of 18 (and all other categories) and was thereafter closed individually as a man attained his eighteenth birthday.  

 

The recruiting office in Glasgow advised in the Daily Record  August 18 1916 that, " the official instruction is that a man is in time for this group if he reports on the day before he attains his eighteenth birthday."

The extension of the scheme was being advertised locally at least until 30 July 1916.

 

Pte Boland took advantage of this dispensation i.e enlisted at 17 years  364 days, and was then placed on the B Reserve under the Group Scheme until he was eighteen and a half.

 

Ken 

 

 

[RussT]

Craig & Ken

 

Thanks for your insights - and Ken - that's very useful additional info on the Scheme of which I was unaware - thanks.

 

Re-looking at the LLT page on the Derby Scheme (I've read in many times!), I now see that there was also a new Group B for 1899 born men - it refers to a Group A but it doesn't explain what that was (frustratingly), so your info has now put that into its proper context.

 

Can I therefore take it as read that during this time (late 1916 and throughout 1917) that the "law" was you couldn't be called up until 18 and half years old and couldn't be sent overseas until 19 yrs? I do re-call that there were some further changes in 1918.

 

Regards

 

Russ

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, RussT said:

 

 

Can I therefore take it as read that during this time (late 1916 and throughout 1917) that the "law" was you couldn't be called up until 18 and half years old and couldn't be sent overseas until 19 yrs? I do re-call that there were some further changes in 1918.

 

 

Not exactly! The position of eighteen year olds under the Act was confusing and lacked consistency, much to the frustration of the Tribunals, especially in 1916. Notwithstanding they were 'deemed to have enlisted'.

 

The general rule that was adopted was an eighteen year old who was called up could volunteer immediately to serve but if they sought deferment they had to produce their birth certificate to the Recruiting Officer and were sent home on the reserve to be called up (in 1916) at eighteen years and eight months I.e. twelve weeks training couple of weeks at the Reserve Bn embarkation leave if they were lucky and on a steamer to France  at 19!  

 

However it seems these 'rules' we're not always consistently applied and there is evidence in some accounts that social class and character influenced decision making, on occasion. In September 1916 the Huddersfield Tribunal complained, 'One notice, recently published was calling up men at eighteen and eight months, three days later another notice was posted calling up men at eighteen, goodness knows what they will do in two weeks time'.

 

 The 19 years old for active service was consistent and held to until March 1918 when Parliament authorised youths of eighteen and a half for overseas service provided they had completed six months training.

 

Ken

[RussT]

Ken

 

Great info - many thanks.

 

Lots of subtle nuances there but it all certainly adds in helping interpret some of these men's records I'm starting to look at for the first time.

 

Regards

 

Russ