John Beech Posted 9 July , 2016 Share Posted 9 July , 2016 Morning All Does anyone know the first name of Hauptmann Kleinschmidt of Zeppelin Z VI - which bombed Liege on 6th August 1914? The sources I have read only refer to him by rank and surname. Also does anyone know his later career? Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 12 July , 2016 Share Posted 12 July , 2016 Refer to the Friedrich George thread above, but most German military sources will not give a first name. When I attempt to risk a broken neck and get to my books to help in that thread I will take a shot at this chap as well. A book called the Ehrenrangliste 1914-18, published in 1926, will probably give you a brief synopsis of his career. But no first name. Officers would usually be identified by their last name, rank, date of commissioning, and perhaps a unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 12 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2016 Hi Bob I have been following that thread and would be grateful for any help. However, it was just out of curiosity - don't come to any harm on my behalf! Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 12 July , 2016 Share Posted 12 July , 2016 Probably have your man. Only four Kleinschmits in the Army during the war, this seems to be the only regular officer. After I get his material down, I will look at the others. This Kleinschmit (not Kleinschmidt) started the war as a Hauptmann in Feldartillerie=Regiment Nr. 74. Woah! Just found a nest of Kleinschmidts in the index. A bunch of them. Will look thru them first. This work is physically difficult, and the book has very small type, naturally in Fraktur. The colonel is a colonel of uniforms. Prob. not our guy. Two lieutenant colonels. One a reservist in Berlin, probably not, the other a heavy artillery staff officer in the Army of Saxony. out of Heavy Artillery Regiment Nr. 19. Possibly, most likely not. Artillery officers could get into flying as observers for directing artillery fire from aircraft. DIRECT HIT!!!! A Hauptmann Kleinschmidt was a Hauptmann in Airship Battalion Nr. 3, which was based in the Cologne - Duesseldorf area, reporting to the Eighth Army Corps.He retired, probably in 1918, but possibly earlier from wounds or illness, as a Major a. D., or "major out of the service". He died October 13, 1920. A Hauptmann Kleinschmidt came out of Infantry Regiment Nr. 64, but then was posted to the Danzig Rifle Factory, and died in Danzig January 6, 1917. Probably was wounded and worked at the factory to serve while not fit for the front, due to his wound or sickness. Very unlikely to be your man. (Note: My grandfather got malaria at the Russian front in 1915 and then had to work in armaments production in the same area as this guy due to the persistant illness.) No idea as to his first name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 13 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 13 July , 2016 Hi Bob Given that Z VI bombed Liege on 6th August 1914 this suggests that he must have been with one of the pre war Airship Battalions so would agree that he was your 'direct hit' Thanks for taking the time to look him up for me. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 13 July , 2016 Share Posted 13 July , 2016 I believe that the nature of the entry in the Ehrenrangliste indicates that he was in Airship Battalion Nr. 3 at the start of the war. (I haven't used these for several years. It is extremely abbreviated in several ways.) Note that the First Battalion was stationed in Berlin, Nr. 2 in Berlin and elsewhere in central Germany (Hannover and Dresden), Nr. 4 was in several places, some not too far from Belgium, and Nr. 5 far in eastern Germany near Russia. So this makes it reasonable that an airship attacking Liege right after the start of the war. The Airship Battalions were of three or four "Companies", and the First, at Berlin, also had a staff of five instructors, all captains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 13 July , 2016 Share Posted 13 July , 2016 Meant to say that it is not surprising that the attacking airship so soon after the start of the was from Airship Battalion Nr. 3, stationed not so far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 13 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 13 July , 2016 Hi Bob Thanks for the additional information rather confirms my thinking Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 13 July , 2016 Share Posted 13 July , 2016 John; Are you especially interested in his career before the war, as he probably was commissioned about 1902 or something like that? I wasn't kidding, it is physically difficult to reach my reference books (Don't ask!), but I can get about to it. Oh, as an aside, I once had lunch with the grand-daughter of von Zeppelin, at least that was who she was represented as by the director of a German air history museum, who was a friend of my father. Did wonder about her age; it was about 1960 and she was perhaps 30. Possibly was a great-grand-daughter. My German wasn't that good then. Nice-looking gal, rather tall. Was in New York City a bit north of Times Square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 14 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2016 Hi Bob Thanks for the reply. Not especially - sorry. I have been looking at Hauptmann Erich Linnarz of the LZ-38 and found he was involved in a raid on Warsaw on 10th August 1914 and that set me looking for the first raid of the war and led me to Kleinschmidt. Like Ian, I am finding it much harder to find information on Army airship officers - particularly those who served in the east. I have been looking at some of the Executive Officers on LZ-38 with Linnarz and his later airships. One was Hauptmann Walter Woolf who was killed on LZ-85 coming back from a raid in Romania and another was Oberleutnant Helmuth Wendling on LZ-97 who surrendered Berlin to the Russians in 1945 I have about half a dozen who I have some detail on but not much. Any objections I pm you their names and see if you can find anything? Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 14 July , 2016 Share Posted 14 July , 2016 John; At the beginning of the war Linnarz was one of the instructor Hauptleute who were on the instructional staff of the First Airship Battalion, Stationed at Tegel, Berlin. He retired as a Major a. D. At the beginning of the war there was a Royal Wuerttemburg Lieutenant named Wolff in the 4th Airship Battalion, which might have been a Wuerttemburg unit, as many of its officers (5 out of 17) were of that army. Wollf served on LZ 86 and was killed as a Hauptmann on September 4. 1916 at Temesvar, which I think is Romania. (Woolf would be an odd German name.) There was no Wendling in the Army airship establishment, but in 1914 there was a Lieutenant Weidling on the operational staff (as opposed to teaching staff) of the First Airship Battalion at Berlin Tegel; in 1926 he was a Hauptmann in the Reichsherr, possibly in a unit abbreviated as 6. AR. All of the above is from pages 598-600 of the Ehrenrangliste 1914-1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 14 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2016 Hi Bob Many thanks for this additional information. I have sent you a PM with the information I had on Linnarz, Woolf and Weidling and a note on the other officers I am looking for Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 15 July , 2016 Share Posted 15 July , 2016 John; I don't see your PM, but I may not know where to look, especially since the new software system. That is why I suggested an e-mail. They just seem to pop up in your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 16 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 16 July , 2016 Hi Bob Have sent email - hope it arrives ok! Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 20 July , 2016 Share Posted 20 July , 2016 This is from an article in OTF 11-2 Air War East by August Blume: There was no Zeppelin raid on Warsaw on 10 August 1914 the only Zeppelin raid on this city in 1914 was on 24/25 November by the ZIV. The LZ86 was destroyed in a crash while returning from a raid on Bucharest. The LZ101 also took part in this raid. On archive .org there is a book "In the World War" by Count Ottokar Czerwin who was on the receiving end of this raid. He mentions an Ambassadors house being hit and 20 Gendarmes killed and the Royal palace being hit. I will agree there you there needs to be more research done on German airship operations in the East. I will post more on this site one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 20 July , 2016 Share Posted 20 July , 2016 Note Temesvar is in Hungary there was an German airship base near there at Szentandras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 21 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2016 Hi James Thank you for your input. I will recheck my source regarding the Warsaw raid Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 21 July , 2016 Share Posted 21 July , 2016 John; I was considering a dash to return the Ehrenrangliste to the proper shelf, and when I did that I could grab the 1912 Prussian/Wuertemberg Rangliste and see what the situation is per the officers you are looking at (their units, rank, usw.), and also the situation of the airship battalions. That might also sort out which armies the different battalions belonged to. Unfortunately the pre-war Ranglisten are per national army, and I have almost no Saxon and Bavarian Ranglisten. How is your German? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 22 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2016 Hi Bob Depends on how well Goggle Translate is working! Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 John, your Hptm. Kleinschmidt is Rudolf Kleinschmidt. A pre-war regular born in 1876 who originally commissioned into Eisenbahn-Regiment Nr. 1 on 27 January 1897 with seniority of that date. Oberleutnant with seniority of 18 May 1904 and Hauptmann on 13 November 1911 (seniority of 18.12.12), he was transferred into Airship battalion Nr. 3 on 1 October 1913. An holder of the Prussian life saving medal, as Bob notes, he died in 1920. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 26 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2016 Hi Glenn I am grateful for this. Not so much for research, just curiosity. It was beginning to look as if his forename had slipped through the net Thanks for sending this Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted 26 July , 2016 Share Posted 26 July , 2016 Ian, I just happened to come across Major Kleinschmidt's death notice in my stuff. The gist of his career you already have but according to this notice, he was severely injured in an airship accident which put him out of action for some months. It would seem he was re-employed as a staff officer in the military railways directorate Nr. 9 in Bucharest. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Beech Posted 28 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2016 Hi Glenn Many thanks for this notice. I have seen a few for infantry officers but think this is the first for an airship officer Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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