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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Info on this famous photo!


Harvey H

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1 hour ago, TheRichTurner said:

The Henrietta aged 5 in the 1891 census is my great grandmother. I can't help wondering why my family had that photo on their mantelpiece for so many years, but maybe they were wrong.

It's certainly an interesting one, whether it will ever be cracked or not...

Craig

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Hi,

 

Forces War Records have a hospital admission/discharge register transcription for 160493 Hopkins which notes:

 

First Name: J

Surname: Hopkins

Age:28

Index Number of Admission: 22846

Information:  Transferred from sick convoy No. 3 Ambulance Train.

Rank: Gunner

Service Number:160493

Years Service: 1 year

Months With Field Force: 9 months

Ailment: Gunshot wound IX (1) right leg, slight

Date of Admission for Original Ailment: 17/04/1918

Date Transferred to Other Hospitals: Hospital Ship 27/04/1918

Number/Designation of Ward:5

Notes written in the Observations Column:15/04/1918. No. 36 Casualty Clearing Station

Religion: Church of England

Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery

Battalion:155th Siege Battery 

Archive Reference: MH106/1155 First World War Representative Medical Records of No. 18 General Hospital: 17/04/1918 (2nd Convoy) to 24/04/1918 (2nd Convoy). British Other Ranks and Operations. No. 18 (Chicago U.S.A.) General Hospital at CAMIERS, FRANCE 

 

Like those in his service file, the dates don't tie back to the purported date of July 1916 for the photo. 

 

Regards

Chris 

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15 hours ago, KevinBattle said:

Did anyone ever come up with an explanation for the white/pale helmet that No 6 had?

Geology of the Somme....and chalk Kevin.

 

As a Pioneer/Sapper digging in it would no doubt turn you kit a lighter shade of whatever....Plenty of fun digging in Salisbury Plain and areas of Kent I have had.... (he says with a faint Yoda twang)

 

Andy

 

 

 

Screenshot_20180313-181922.jpg

20180314_130315.png

Edited by HolymoleyRE
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20 hours ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

Forces War Records have a hospital admission/discharge register transcription for 160493 Hopkins which notes:

 

First Name: J

Surname: Hopkins

Age:28

Index Number of Admission: 22846

Information:  Transferred from sick convoy No. 3 Ambulance Train.

Rank: Gunner

Service Number:160493

Years Service: 1 year

Months With Field Force: 9 months

Ailment: Gunshot wound IX (1) right leg, slight

Date of Admission for Original Ailment: 17/04/1918

Date Transferred to Other Hospitals: Hospital Ship 27/04/1918

Number/Designation of Ward:5

Notes written in the Observations Column:15/04/1918. No. 36 Casualty Clearing Station

Religion: Church of England

Regiment: Royal Garrison Artillery

Battalion:155th Siege Battery 

Archive Reference: MH106/1155 First World War Representative Medical Records of No. 18 General Hospital: 17/04/1918 (2nd Convoy) to 24/04/1918 (2nd Convoy). British Other Ranks and Operations. No. 18 (Chicago U.S.A.) General Hospital at CAMIERS, FRANCE 

 

Like those in his service file, the dates don't tie back to the purported date of July 1916 for the photo. 

 

Regards

Chris 

Thanks for this.

 

At least that's the record straight now. I shall stop telling people my great uncle was in that famous picture, and at least I know more about his war record. I'll let my family know, especially my second cousin Richard Hopkins, who is Gunner Joseph James Hopkins's grandson.

 

You people are amazingly diligent and knowledgeable researchers.

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5 minutes ago, TheRichTurner said:

Thanks for this.

 

At least that's the record straight now. I shall stop telling people my great uncle was in that famous picture, and at least I know more about his war record. I'll let my family know, especially my second cousin Richard Hopkins, who is Gunner Joseph James Hopkins's grandson.

 

You people are amazingly diligent and knowledgeable researchers.

Just to add a bit of confirmation to the medical record above;
 

#160492 was called up 18 May 1917
#160493
#160498 was called up 21 May 1917


Craig

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29 minutes ago, clk said:

His papers (FMP here) show that he was mobilised from the Army Reserve, and posted on 19th May 1917.

 

Regards

Chris

Thanks Chris.

Craig

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3 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Geology of the Somme....and chalk Kevin.

 

As a Pioneer/Sapper digging in it would no doubt turn you kit a lighter shade of whatever....Plenty of fun digging in Salisbury Plain and areas of Kent I have had.... (he says with a faint Yoda twang)

 

Andy

 

Whilst we can't argue with the geology, I'm not sure that that is the explanation.

Men 2,4,5 (& possibly 8 have sacking covers for their helmet, making them appear a different colour to  the helmet of man No.6.

What shade of grey/white their helmets might appear in this image if they had no covers is anybody's guess.

In fact No.6's helmet doesn't appear lily white though does it? Compare its colour with the bandage on his knee, or No.7's arm. And it is pretty uniform in colour.

Whilst it's possible that his helmet may have become covered in chalk from a lot of pioneering, the rest of his uniform seems relatively clean.

I'd suggest it is painted a paler shade than usual as a camouflage measure, and whatever that paler shade is- maybe blueish, it may show up pale on the film which may be orthochromatic at that time.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Whilst it's possible that his helmet may have become covered in chalk from a lot of pioneering, the rest of his uniform seems relatively clean.

I'd suggest it is painted a paler shade than usual as a camouflage measure,

Fair point, his helmet is compareble to the men behind and the hue of the upturned chalky spoil on the edges of the banks.

 

So it is perhaps a combination of both, camouflage (and it's intended purpose) to match the hue of soil forming the parapets and spoil, a dark helmet popping up against a light background would stick out like a sore thumb...I mean who would wear DPM and Dark Green NBC suits in the Desert!

 

Andy

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22 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Just to add a bit of confirmation to the medical record above;
 

#160492 was called up 18 May 1917
#160493
#160498 was called up 21 May 1917


Craig

Thanks.

 

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22 hours ago, clk said:

His papers (FMP here) show that he was mobilised from the Army Reserve, and posted on 19th May 1917.

 

Regards

Chris

Thanks. I haven't paid to register with FindMyPast, but I suppose you established that the 2 entries I see on the link for Joseph J. Hopkins and Joseph James Hopkins aren't somehow overlapping records of the same man? Forgive me for what might be a dumb question.  I have no idea if this sort of mix-up is possible, even.

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3 minutes ago, TheRichTurner said:

Thanks. I haven't paid to register with FindMyPast, but I suppose you established that the 2 entries I see on the link for Joseph J. Hopkins and Joseph James Hopkins aren't somehow overlapping records of the same man? Forgive me for what might be a dumb question.  I have no idea if this sort of mix-up is possible, even.

They are the same man - both records are #160493  Joseph J(ames) Hopkins (the medal index cards often just use initials for middle names).

Craig

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  • 1 year later...

I have been reading all correspondence on the persons in the photographs of the injured men and for the past 5 years when one of my sisters found the photo on the internet when she immediately saw the resemblance of person no 6 to our father who fought In the Battle of the Somme, was in the Royal Garrison Artillery, was injured in his leg and was, I understand,  brought back to a hospital at Bristol to be treated before, we believe, being sent back to the war. my father was born in July1894 and would therefore have been 22 years of age.The family has compared this photo with ones of my father at around that age and have shown these photos to others outside of the family and not one person has said that they did not think it was him. We have an open mind on the truth but would really like to know if it is him. My father never ever talked about his experiences in the war and it is also strange that myself or my siblings can never recall seeing my father without his legs being covered by long johns or trousers, albeit he played football in shorts after the war.  My fathers name was William Cecil Gregory and he lived at Warsash, Hampshire. He had 2 War medals ( Victory an British War Medals) which were stolen but his service number may have been 121719. Photographs of my father at the War time can be provided for comparison if interest is shown.

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Hello Facinated and welcome,

 

It goes without saying that there would be great interest in any evidence regarding the identity of any of the men in the photo.

Please post your photo.

Just to remind readers who we're talking about, Soldier no 6 in Post #38 on Page 2.

There has been a name associated with him in the past, Joe Hopkins a Pioneer (Post #74, Page 3):

image.png.034ae15226f85dd8961b701622772031.png

image.png.4e8a7135354e34bff872c5ffa778ebcb.png

 

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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I certainly think a photo of Gregory would be helpful. The immediate problem is that No. 6 has been identified as a pioneer and is not an artillery man, note the pick and shovel on his collar.

 

Without reading the whole thread (although post#74 was me quoting someone else) I thought that Joe Hopkins turned out to be another artillery man who could not have been there at the time.

 

For 121719 Gregory I can only see his medal entitlement which only shows RGA service, nothing in WO Casualty Lists and nothing in MH106 admissions.

TEW

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On 21/10/2019 at 12:34, TEW said:

I certainly think a photo of Gregory would be helpful. The immediate problem is that No. 6 has been identified as a pioneer and is not an artillery man, note the pick and shovel on his collar.

 

Without reading the whole thread (although post#74 was me quoting someone else) I thought that Joe Hopkins turned out to be another artillery man who could not have been there at the time.

 

For 121719 Gregory I can only see his medal entitlement which only shows RGA service, nothing in WO Casualty Lists and nothing in MH106 admissions.

TEW

 

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On 21/10/2019 at 12:34, TEW said:

I certainly think a photo of Gregory would be helpful. The immediate problem is that No. 6 has been identified as a pioneer and is not an artillery man, note the pick and shovel on his collar.

 

Without reading the whole thread (although post#74 was me quoting someone else) I thought that Joe Hopkins turned out to be another artillery man who could not have been there at the time.

 

For 121719 Gregory I can only see his medal entitlement which only shows RGA service, nothing in WO Casualty Lists and nothing in MH106 admissions.

TEW

I will certainly send photos of my father at wartime including a photo of him in military uniform but it may take a few days to do this. Your views, and members views,  on the possible  likeness will be appreciated. Who were the " Pioneers" and what were their role?

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#115 is it possible to show a clearer photo as the ear shape looks different? 

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Re. post #115. I think oldhamgirl must have PMd or emailed the photo of Edmund Dillamore to me.

 

Apart from what I said in post#117 I don't think there was any further discussion on whether anyone felt the two photos showed the same man.

TEW

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