Shiny Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 Hi All, I've just started to look at a relative of my wife's but am coming up against a few brick walls. He was 204248 Pte Alfred Harrison born in North Shields around 1886. According to the CWGC he died on the 25th of March 1918 so I'm guessing the Spring Offensive. I wanted to look at the war diary but I'm not sure just which one to look at. CWGC shows him as 4th Bn, Yorkshire Regt but a link I found on Ancestry shows him as 4th Bn Yorkshire Hussars (Alexandra, Princes of Wales Own). When I looked for the war diary I'm getting variations such as 1/7th etc but couldn't find just 4th Bn. Can anyone help me with just who it was he served with and which diary I need to read. Thanks a lot, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 Listed in Bill Danby website with info from the the war diary Here Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 The dates for some officers KIA must be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 3 minutes ago, johnboy said: The dates for some officers KIA must be wrong? please expand regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 Men KIA in 1922, 1924 and even one in 1927? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 6 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 6 July , 2016 Thanks very much, that's a great help. Looking at the dates they are reversed. The one for Alfred is written as 180325 but he died on 25/3/18. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 Johnboy I bet you were also told at school to pay more attention Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 6 July , 2016 Share Posted 6 July , 2016 Teach me to pay more attention. Can't even blame it on the updated site! Funny way to give a date ,though, Not even American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 24 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2016 Hi All, I've just found out that Alfred was killed on the same day that his brother was captured. They were both in the same unit so I'm guessing they would have been quite close to each other then it all happened. Alfred was recorded as having died of wounds, is there anywhere I can look to find out a bit more detail? Where he actually died and so on? His brother was captured at Reims but he is buried at Pargny, would they have been evacuating wounded that far during a battle as big as the spring offensive? Thanks a lot, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 31 July , 2016 Share Posted 31 July , 2016 Alfred's Probate record Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 1 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2016 That's brilliant Ray, thanks very much. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 1 August , 2016 Share Posted 1 August , 2016 It appears that Alfred' wife Gladys was clinging to the belief that Alfred may have been taken prisoner during the German spring offensive as she placed an advert in the North Eastern Daily Gazette on the 18th Dec 1918 asking if any released prisoners had any info on Alfred Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 1 August , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2016 That's fantastic, how did you find that? I did find a card with his and her details on on the ICRC website so I guessed she'd been in contact with them. Thank you so much for all of your work on him. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 1 August , 2016 Share Posted 1 August , 2016 On 24/07/2016 at 21:12, Shiny said: Alfred was recorded as having died of wounds, is there anywhere I can look to find out a bit more detail? Where he actually died and so on? On 24/07/2016 at 21:12, Shiny said: he is buried at Pargny, would they have been evacuating wounded that far during a battle as big as the spring offensive? Historical Information Pargny British Cemetery was made after the Armistice, by concentrations from the surrounding battlefields and the following cemetery:- PARGNY GERMAN CEMETERY, which was a little way North-East of Pargny Church, contained the graves of 32 soldiers from the United Kingdom. The majority of the burials in this cemetery are those of officers and men of the 61st (South Midland) and 8th Divisions, whose resistance at the Somme crossings on the 24th March 1918, materially helped to delay the German advance. There are now over 600, 1914-18 war casualties commemorated in this site. Of these, more than three-quarters are unidentified and special memorials are erected to 16 soldiers from the United Kingdom, known or believed to be buried among them. Other special memorials record the names of two officers of the Royal Air Force, buried in Pertain Military Cemetery, whose graves were destroyed by shell fire. Certain graves in Plot III, Row E, identified as a group but not individually, are marked with headstones inscribed: "Buried near this spot". Alfred's Grave Reference: Sp. Mem. III. E. 10. Buried near this spot. Its possible that Alfred was captured wounded by the Germans and died of his wounds in enemy hands buried by the enemy his grave subsequently lost although we may never know for sure Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scalyback Posted 1 August , 2016 Share Posted 1 August , 2016 It is also possible that the Germans buried those British prisoners who died of wounds in their hands in a communal grave, properly recording those present and that when they were exhumed post conflict they could not be positively identified and were reburied in individual graves marked as buried near this spot. In German military culture it is considered honorable to be buried with your comrades in the same grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 1 August , 2016 Share Posted 1 August , 2016 1 hour ago, Old Scalyback said: It is also possible that the Germans buried those British prisoners who died of wounds in their hands in a communal grave, properly recording those present and that when they were exhumed post conflict they could not be positively identified and were reburied in individual graves marked as buried near this spot. In German military culture it is considered honorable to be buried with your comrades in the same grave. Here is the grave ref doc which indicates that Old Scalybacks explanation is most likely to be correct as can be seen on the document all re buried in individual graves although named the individual positive identification of several are unknown so marked buried near this spot Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 15 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2016 I All, Sorry to reopen an old thread but I'm looking for a bit more help with these brothers. Just to recap their details are: 204248 Pte Alfred Harrison - KIA on 25/3/18 204227 Pte Edward Harrison - POW on 25/3/18 Both brothers were in the 4th Bn Yorkshire Regt and Edward is my wife's great Grandfather. I'm wondering if there is any way to find out a little more detail, specifically were they in the same company? I haven't been able to find a service record for either of them and the MIC / roll doesn't have that level of detail. We are wondering if Edward has seen his brother being shot, run over to help and been captured or if Alfred has seen his brother being captured, gone to try and help him and been shot. I know we will probably never know that level of detail but if we knew their company or even platoons it might help confirm that they were with each other on the battlefield and something like that was possible. Thanks for the help, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 15 December , 2016 Share Posted 15 December , 2016 Hi Michael On Ancestry The 4th Bn Yorkshire Regiment war diary is among the UK, WWI War Diaries (France, Belgium and Germany), 1914-1920 Various (Infantry Bridages, 50th Division) 50th Division Piece 2836: 150 Infantry Brigade (1915 - 1919) The 4th Bn Yorkshire Regiment Starts on page 194 (28th 4th 1915 onward's) Here is the Ancestry link Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 15 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2016 Thanks Ray, are you thinking they might be mentioned in the war diary or is that for general information about the Battalion's activities? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 15 December , 2016 Share Posted 15 December , 2016 Michael I think it is highly unlikely that the brothers will have been mentioned in the diary it will have been chaos during the first couple of days of the German spring offensive large numbers of the battalion were either killed or taken prisoner The 150th Brigade decimated Posted the link for the war diary there may be additional snippets of information in them although Bill Danby's website on the 4th Bn is pretty comprehensive Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted 16 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2016 Thanks a lot Ray, I though that was probably the case. I'll have a look at Bill's website as well. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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