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battle of loos

ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY

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battle of loos

good morning,

 

I researche all police men who served in France .

because, I have finded near the battle field (artois - zouave valley) one cap badge of the  ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY with another cap badge (CANADA).

 

this is the cap badge :

ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY.JPG

 

thank's in advance for your anser

 

regards

 

michel

Edited by battle of loos

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Jervis

Hi Michel

I am not exactly sure what information you are seeking? 

 

While the badge does resemble the RIC badge it seems odd to

find a civilian police badge on a WW1 battlefield. Are you sure it is an RIC cap badge? 

 

I am no expert but could it be from an Irish related regiment such Tyneside Irish, London Irish, Royal Irish regiment etc. The Tyneside Irish cap badge seems to look similar

 

regards

 

 

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TwoEssGee

Michel,

 

I am not an expert on badges either, but the one you have found certainly appears to be a Royal Irish Constabulary badge.

 

There were many hundreds of former RIC policemen who served during the war, with probably the majority serving with the Irish Guards.

 

It is very likely that some of these former policemen carried their RIC cap badge with them during the war as a memento, so I'm not surprised that some were lost.

 

Congratulations on a rare find.

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battle of loos

good morning,

 

sorry for the long time without no anwser.

 

this the basck about this cap badge :

royal_10.jpg

 

when i have find this cap badge badge I know for the London Irish Rifles but for the "British Military Bagde forum" are  the ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY.

 

I would like find how many Irish Policemen are coming in France during the 1st World War.

 

regards

 

michel

 

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tony paley

Michel,

     This is almost certainly the cap or shoulder badge of the London Irish rifles. It is not an 'Angel Harp'. The Tyne Side Irish wore the cap badge of the Northumberland Fusiliers with the Harp above NF on the collar, also Tyneside Irish on the banner below the harp. the other Irish regiments with a Harp badge usually had the regimental title on.

 

tony P

Edited by tony paley

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tony paley

just re read your text Michel, the London Irish famously went over the top during the battle of Loos kicking footballs, it was reported widely in the British press at the time and is fairly important in their regimental history. The Regiment still exists at company strength in the reserve London Regt.

 

Tony P

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Steven Broomfield
1 hour ago, tony paley said:

just re read your text Michel, the London Irish famously went over the top during the battle of Loos kicking footballs, ... The Regiment still exists at company strength in the reserve London Regt.

 

Tony P

'D' Company, but not sure how much longer.

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squirrel

Only one football was kicked over the top at Loos by Rifleman Edwards of the London Irish Rifles.

3 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

'D' Company, but not sure how much longer.

It is the 50th anniversary of the formation of D Company this year. St Patrick's day parade on 19th March will mark the occasion.

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tony paley

There you go Michel, no doubt the London Irish Rifles, they were in 141st Brigade 47th (London) Division. The 47th Division was on the extreme right of the attack at the southern end adjoining the French 21 Corps. This I believe is near the village of Loos. The Division captured Loos Crassier. This could tie up with where you discovered the badge.

 

Tony P

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tony paley

Michel,

   I'm here again! in March 1916 the 47th London Division were in the area once more. they were holding the Northern part of Vimy Ridge in the area of Souchez and Carency.

Tony P

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TwoEssGee

I'm still not an expert on badges, but I still do think this is a Royal Irish Constabulary badge.

I have attached some photographs for comparison.

 

The first one is from the British Military Badges site, and is that of the 1/18th (County of London) Battalion (London Irish Rifles).

 

The second picture is from the Irish Constabulary.com website and is an RIC Officers badge.

 

Picture three is Michel's badge.

 

Picture four is another variant of the RIC badge.

 

Are there any other variants of the London Irish badge that I have missed, because the similarities between the RIC badge and Michel's badge are quite striking.

a1uhhg4522_4.jpg

QvcOC2.jpg

577a2febae161_ROYALIRISHCONSTABULARY.JPG.87e48109b5f4c5683b3b11aa0328d446.jpg

OffCBKC.jpg

Edited by TwoEssGee

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squirrel

The LIR badge does not have the strings of the harp voided whereas the RIC badge does. But then, the one found by Michael does have the clasp on the side of the harp which I have not seen on an LIR badge before. Even so, I lean towards the badge being LIR unless someone in the LIR was wearing his RIC cap badge from previous service?

Bit of a mystery there...

Edited by squirrel

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Michael Pegum

I agree with TwoEssGee. This has to be an officer's badge of the R.I.C., as the curly bit on the left side of the harp, the column, does not appear on the L.I.R. badge.

 

The owner of the badge found on the battlefield probably had the badge in his pocket, rather than on his cap.

 

Michael

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TwoEssGee
1 hour ago, squirrel said:

The LIR badge does not have the strings of the harp voided whereas the RIC badge does. But then, the one found by Michael does have the clasp on the side of the harp which I have not seen on an LIR badge before. Even so, I lean towards the badge being LIR unless someone in the LIR was wearing his RIC cap badge from previous service?

Bit of a mystery there...

 

Squirrel,

 

I noticed the voided strings too, and that does raise the question of whether it is an RIC badge, or not.

I found another picture (via Google) which has unvoided strings, but to be honest, it looks like a crude, modern reproduction, rather than a genuine RIC period badge, so I'm reluctant to post it here as the source appears to be a retail or auction site with unknown provenance.

 

Can anyone clarify what badge was worn by Officers of The London Irish? Did it differ significantly from the OR's badge?

 

As I mentioned in Post #3, and as Michael reiterated above, an RIC badge could have found it's way to the find location in the pocket of a former RIC officer, who was carrying it as a memento of his previous service.

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squirrel

LIR Officers wore a rifle green cord boss with a small version of the cap badge as per other rifle regiments.

Photograph of Lieutenant H Stubbing MC attached. Note also the shamrock collar badges.

Incidentally, I have never seen (never say never but it's true) a LIR cap badge with top and bottom lugs - they usually had a slider.

The post WW1 Officers and Senior NCO's badge for wear with the caubeen and adopted by all ranks in 1993 has a lug on each side but is a much larger badge and also has a square ended lug in the centre to hold the hackle - St Patrick's blue for Officers/Senior NCO's Green for OR's.)

 

LIR Officer.jpg

Edited by squirrel
attach pic.& comment

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Peter Mc

Most definately NOT an RIC cap badge

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Steven Broomfield
13 hours ago, Peter Mc said:

Most definately NOT an RIC cap badge

Not arguing, but can you tell us you are so certain?

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museumtom

I found this photo on this forum a while ago.

 

RIC.jpg

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Peter Mc
2 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Not arguing, but can you tell us you are so certain?

 

The RIC used the voided string harps on a red cloth ground for the forage caps from 1880 to 1922, badges suppled by different makers had to conform to the sealed pattern.  The only exception I have ever seen was a smaller, differently shaped 'non-voided' officers badge worn on the side cap (source Smith and Wright Pattern Book, badge maker Gaunt) but it is unclear if this pattern badge was ever accepted into use.

The example shown corresponds very closely to the Ulster Home Guard pattern but as the OP has said he found it near a battle field the dates do not line up. An indication of the size, and a picture of the reverse, may have helped.

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Steven Broomfield

Thanks - something to be learned every day!

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battle of loos

good morning,

 

thank you very much for all answer aboiut this cap badge .

 

this is the back :

 

5900b9fd98a62_ROYALIRISHCONSTABULARY(2).JPG.61b9a7b5d2f3a579b650ec848cbc6391.JPG

 

size :

49 mm / 25 mm

 

bindings resembles those for the officier cap badge.

2 brackets at the top and bottom.

 

Kind regards
 
michel

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Peter Mc

OK so a cap badge size rather than collar, but the fastener bases possibly suited fir blades rather than lugs?

but look at post 8 in this thread

 

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TwoEssGee

Just seen this thread again, linked from a more recent post.

Glad to see that a real RIC expert has cleared this up. Thanks Peter.

Every day is a school day.

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battle of loos
Good evening

 

I found the similarities between my cap badge (paint in black) and the RIC's. :
These surrounded in yellow :
 
5a95c33759d0e_577a2febae161_ROYALIRISHCONSTABULARY.JPG.87e48109b5f4c5683b3b11aa0328d446.jpg.a06017b2e46f4fc91ef39724c4642d99-Copie.jpg.bfe453c83a8fdafe48b024928a19da81.jpg5a95c33a994e0_OffCBKC.jpg.cbc07b6ffb7c0583fa99d7e4bd34b1ee-Copie.jpg.d24ff9509a8fb0f1cd8eac71756cbd78.jpg
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
While nothing sticks with that of the 18th London.

 

a1uhhg4522_4.jpg.3a92dc0fb773ba2ed48246b0169211de.jpg.da2cab2d84d19f8de4a0cf16e43be13a.jpg

 

Kind regards

 

Michel
Edited by battle of loos

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