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stu

Royal Fusiliers in the Great War

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stu
Hi Stu,

Not sure if the book would cover these regiments, but if they do would be grateful for lookups on:-

26th Battalion, Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) for 18/6/16 & 14/12/16

2nd (City of London) Battalion (Royal Fusiliers) - 17/09/16

Grateful for any assistance

Cheers

James

Hi James.

The 26th battalion made a raid just north of Wytschaete on 15/12/16,Lt CRW Jenkins was awarded the M.C for shooting a sentry,taking the identification of the German and leading the raid.

At 11.30pm the same night,the Germans also made a raid on the battalion front and caught some of the Fusiliers unawares whilst repairing the wire,the enemy entered the front line,but Pte H.Jones beat them off with a machine gun and Lt M.B.Maude went out to collect the wounded men fron the wiring party,Jones got the DCM and Maude got the MC.

No mention of the 2nd Londons on 17/9/16,but on 15/19/16 they made an attack at Combles,C and D companies quickly gained their objectives but the enemy tried to bomb them out,their losses were so great that A and B companies were sent to reinforce but they also suffered badly,the position was eventually held by the assitance of another battalion(not named).

I hope this is OK for you.

Stu

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tombowcock

Stu,

Thanks very much for taking the time and trouble to feedback that information.

The particular person I was looking into is buried in Combles CWGC so what you have said all fits in.

Once again Thanks very much

Cheers

James

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Chris_B

Stu,

No need to apologise for the delay, as always I'm grateful for your help and any information is always much appreciated.

Regards,

Chris.

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bmac
No mention of the 2nd Londons on 17/9/16,but on 15/19/16 they made an attack at Combles,C and D companies quickly gained their objectives but the enemy tried to bomb them out,their losses were so great that A and B companies were sent to reinforce but they also suffered badly,the position was eventually held by the assitance of another battalion(not named).

The 2nd Londons were involved in this action from the 15th to the night of the 16th/17th when they were relieved by the 1/5th Londons (London Rifle Brigade).

They suffered considerable losses:

4 officers and 10 other ranks killed

3 officers and 19 other ranks wounded

251 other ranks missing (!)

Their objective was Loop Trench via Combles Trench and they were assisted by the tank Creme de Menthe (the 15th being the open of the Battle of Flers-Courcelette when the tanks were first used).

There is a detailed description of the action in the 2nd Londons regimental history. If you need more detail let me know.

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tombowcock
The 2nd Londons were involved in this action from the 15th to the night of the 16th/17th when they were relieved by the 1/5th Londons (London Rifle Brigade).

There is a detailed description of the action in the 2nd Londons regimental history.  If you need more detail let me know.

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the additional detail. The person I am researching Pte Percy Tucker is luckily one of those is identified and buried in Combles Cemetery. Indeed I paid my respects in August to his resting place.

As I am trying to build as much of a picture as possible any additional detail would be most gratefully welcomed.

Also if anyone has a trench map from this time !

I know I ask a lot, but would once again add my sincerest appreciation to everyone who has helped.

Thanks

James

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stu
Hi Bill,

Thank you for the additional detail. The person I am researching Pte Percy Tucker is luckily one of those is identified and buried in Combles Cemetery. Indeed I paid my respects in August to his resting place.

As I am trying to build as much of a picture as possible any additional detail would be most gratefully welcomed.

Also if anyone has a trench map from this time !

I know I ask a lot, but would once again add my sincerest appreciation to everyone who has helped.

Thanks

James

James,

I do have a trench map for Combles with the correct date,I'm having problems scanning it at the moment,I'll put it on as soon as I can.

Stu

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tombowcock
James,

I do have a trench map for Combles with the correct date,I'm having problems scanning it at the moment,I'll put it on as soon as I can.

Stu

Hi Stu,

Would be very much appreciated as and when you have time.

All the very best

James

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stu
Hi Stu,

Would be very much appreciated as and when you have time.

All the very best

James

James,

Here is the map I promised,it is dated 3/9/16,unfortunately the trench detail in the area you want is a bit patchy,but hopefully it can still help you.

I think the 2nd Londons attacked in the area squares numbered 26/27 and 20/21 around the sunken road and Leuze wood.

Regards.

Stu

post-1036-1127944352.jpg

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stu

James,

This is the best I can get it after numerous attempts,sorry if you can't see it too well.

Regards.

stu

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tombowcock
James,

This is the best I can get it after numerous attempts,sorry if you can't see it too well.

Regards.

stu

No worries Stu,

As always I am appreciative of the effort and time you have put.

Many Many Thanks

James

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bmac

The area of the attack was SE to NW through Square 27. If I can get my scanner to work properly I will try to copy the map from the 2nd Londons Regt history.

Ooops, cannot read a compass. Mean SW to NE :huh:

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tombowcock
The area of the attack was SE to NW through Square 27.  If I can get my scanner to work properly I will try to copy the map from the 2nd Londons Regt history.

Hi Bill,

Thanks very much I would be very grateful.

I have just ordered Paul Reeds Book on Combles so that may give a bit of additional detail as well.

Once again thanks to evryone for their help and assistance.

All the best

James

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bmac

Map attached. I will scan the text of the action so that you can better understand what happened. Basically they attacked from the Assembly Trenches towards Combles Trench then turned half right up Loop Trench towards the Sunken Road. More to follow.

post-49-1128767369.jpg

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bmac

From The 2nd London Regiment in the Great War

One of these three tanks was attached to the 169th Brigade, and was detailed to cooperate with the 1/2nd Londons in another attack on Loop Trench. The 1/2nd Londons' attack was timed to start at 6.20 a.m., and was to consist of four waves, with two platoons in each. The attacking companies were disposed as follows:

FIRST AND SECOND WAVES: 'D' Company (Capt. A. G. L. Jepson).

THIRD AND FOURTH WAVES: 'C' Company (Lieut. J. H. Clive),

RESERVE: 'A' and ' B' Companies (now amalgamated) in Leuzenake Trench.

Each wave was to move with its right flank directed on the southern end of Loop Trench, and on reaching Combles Trench was to wheel to the right. It was hoped that the configuration of the ground would conceal the advance from the strong German position in the sunken road until the right flank of the attack had gained a footing in Loop Trench. A manoeuvre of this type, involving a change of direction under fire, is always difficult and dangerous, but in this instance was justified by the result.

Punctually at zero hour, 'D' and ' C' Companies assaulted with great dash. The tank - the Creme de Menthe - had moved forward at 6 o'clock, and it now travelled successfully as far as Loop Trench, where it broke down. Its crew then had no alternative but to set it on fire, and make their escape, but not before it had served some useful purpose, by assisting the I/2nd Londons to capture Loop Trench and the end of Combles Trench towards Leuze Wood which had defied their efforts and those of the QWR on the 10th.

The 1/2nd Londons, having successfully executed the change of direction, and gained a footing in Loop Trench, continued their progress to within a hundred yards of the junction of the sunken road and Loop Trench, where they were held up by trench blocks and much uncut wire. Their important position in the sunken road being threatened by this advance, the Germans at once counter-attacked, and tried by accurate bombing to dislodge the 1/2nd Londons. Against these desperate counter-attacks, ' C, and ' D' Companies, reinforced by 50 men of 'A' and 'B' Companies, sent up at about 7 a.m., held their new line. Blocks were established at the north end of Loop Trench, three sections of Battalion bombers and a trench mortar being sent up to hold them. In this close fighting casualties were very heavy, especially among the officers and the bombers. ' C' Comp lost Lieut. Clive and 2nd Lieut. Sproule wounded, and ' D' Company Capt. Jepson, Lieut. P. C. Taylor, and 2nd Lieut. Sullivan killed.

So important were bombers in this trench fighting and so reduced in numbers was the Battalion's bombing personnel that Lieut.-Col. Atten-borough was obliged to ask Lieut.-Col. R. R. Husey, M.C., commanding the L.R.B., for reinforcements. This request was immediately complied with and forty-three bombers of the L.R.B. joined the 1/2nd Londons in Loop Trench. 2nd Lieut. St. J. R. St. Ledger, who had also come up, took com-mand of the line, and, ably assisted by 2nd Lieut. W. E, Lockhart, organized further bombing attacks to capture the junction of Loop Trench and the sunken road. These attacks, though supported by two trench mortars sent forward under 2nd Lieut. A. J. Whittle, made no progress, the resistance of the enemy, who was holding the line of the road in great strength, being very determined.

As there was now no senior officer with the attacking companies, Capt. J. P Kellett, M.C., who had only rejoined from the 56th Divisional School of Instruction on the 13th, was sent forward by Lieut.-Col. Attenborough to take command of the line. On his arrival in the early part of the afternoon, he found another attack being made on the sunken road. This was followed by an unsuccessful counter-attack on the part of the enemy to bomb the 1/2nd Londons out of Combles Trench. At 6:50 p.m Capt. Kellett reported to Lieut.-Col. Attenborough as follows:

The Battalion bombers have established a block at junction of 'V' Trench (Loop Trench) and Loop. . . The artillery have again shortened their range on sunken road and have wounded two more bombers. This line appears to me to be far too thinly held.

The hostile attack fizzled out. The trench was in places very narrow and much knocked about, and its garrison inevitably suffered from the increased activity of the enemy's snipers and bombers. Capt. Kellett, who had been joined by 2nd Lieuts. F. C. Baker and S. W. Keen, at once reorganized the defence by allotting a sector to each company and by strengthening the bombing blocks. By the evening the trench had been deepened, and fire-steps made. At nightfall, a party came up from the rear, bringing bags of parcel post, hot food, and fresh supplies of bombs and ammunition. This party was followed by a detachment of Royal Engineers and a company of the: pioneer battalion (1/5th Cheshires), who constructed a good strong point around the junction of Loop Trench and Combles Trench, and partially wired in both sides of Loop Trench. The position, therefore, could be regarded as far more satisfactory.

At 11 p.m. an attack, in conjunction with the 167th Brigade on the left, was made against the Sunken Road Trench by the L.R.B. bombers, and at the same time another attack was made by the 1/2nd London bombers, under 2nd Lieut. St. Ledger, against the strong point at the junction of Loop Trench and the sunken road. These attacks met with no better success than their predecessors. In compliance with orders from Br.-General Coke to attack the sunken road at dawn, 2nd Lieut. St. Ledger and his bombers made yet another attack at 5 a.m, they advanced fifty yards, but, after a stubborn fight, were forced to retire to their original block. 2nd Lieut. St. Ledger, who had bravely led his men in all these attacks, was shot through the head; and at the same time, Sergt. Bullock, the Bombing Sergeant, was killed by a bomb. Mention must here be made of Sergt. Evered, who did splendid work in these repeated attacks on the sunken road; three times he led parties forward to the objective before being severely wounded.

Capt. Kellett, in his diary, stigmatizes this period shortly, as a `trying night.' On the morning of the 16th, he took stock of his position, and found that the line was held by seven officers (2nd Lieuts. Lockhart, Baker; Keen, Edmett, Whittle, a Brigade Machine-Gun Company Officer, and himself), 13 Battalion bombers, 44 men of 'A' Company, 81 of 'B,' 45 of 'C,' 31 of `D,' 17 men of the L.R.B., 12 of the Trench Mortar Battery,' and 14 of the Brigade Machine-Gun Company. These numbers he considered quite in-adequate in view of the bad condition of the trenches; and he was of opinion that a combined bomb attack by the enemy from both flanks, after anything like a bombardment, could only be repulsed with great difficulty.

The physical and mental strain was beginning to tell on the men. Capt. Kellett himself had had no sleep since the morning of the 14th, and most of his officers were in like case. With the enemy in front and on both flanks, the position was always an anxious one. The defenders were constantly worried by snipers from Leuze Wood and the Loop; and the British artillery though prompt in their response to calls for aid, was short in range, causing many casualties to the troops in front. Indeed, one 8 inch howitzer bombarded part of the trench for some hours, demolishing the Battalion's bombing block in Combles Trench and subjecting the whole garrison to a most demoralizing experience. Repeated attempts by Battalion Headquarters to stop this fire were unavailing; for among the masses of artillery in this area it was difficult to locate the offender. The only consolation was that, while the shelling lasted the chances of an enemy attack were slight. No stretcher-bearers had been able to get up during the day, and, above all, no rum had arrived. Further improvement of their position was out of the question, the men being too worn out to dig. Fortunately the enemy attempted no serious counter-attack during the day; and at 11 p.m: that night -16th/17th - the remnant of the Battalion, still clinging tenaciously to the position that it had gained, was relieved by the L.R.B., under Capt. Wills.

The casualties of the Battalion in this battle were

KILLED: 4 officers (Capt. A. G. L. Jepson, Lieut. P. C. Taylor, 2nd Lieuts. St. J. R. St. Ledger, and A. J. Sullivan), and 10 other ranks (including C.S.M.s H. Wilson and J. Powell, and Sergts. Bullock, Tucker, and Maidiment).

WOUNDED: 3 officers (Lieut. J. H. Clive, and 2nd Lieuts. A. L. B. Sproule and J. R. Skeet), and 19 other ranks.

MISSING: 251 other ranks.

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Guest jabond

Hello Stu,

I just found your message from 2004 where you offered to do look ups on the Royal Fusiliers.

I am after information on Walter SCOTT 24th Battalion ( Sports) who was killed at Thelus/Arras 13 April 1917 aged 30. He was born in Leeds, Yorkshire 1886

There is a Victory Medal issued for him on PRO

He was the son of Dr Walter SCOTT and Elizabeth Saies SCOTT - his wife was Eva Katherine and the family were living at North Kensington during the war

If you are still doing look ups, I would really appreciate any information you may find on him. I think he was a rifleman.

Kind regards

Jocelyn

Sydney Australia

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tombowcock
From The 2nd London Regiment in the Great War

The casualties of the Battalion in this battle were

KILLED: 10 other ranks (including C.S.M.s H. Wilson and J. Powell, and Sergts. Bullock, Tucker, and Maidiment).

Bill,

Once again I am deeply indebted to you. The piece that you sent even named Segt Percy Tucker the person I am researching.

Your infomation along with Paul Reed's book- Combles which I found to be extremely helpful in getting my mind around what was going on has given me a much better understanding of the vents that day.

I only wish had known all this when we were in Combles in August. This makes a return trip unavoidable.

Bill your a gem..thanks

James

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stu
Hello Stu,

I just found your message from 2004 where you offered to do look ups on the Royal Fusiliers.

I am after information on Walter SCOTT 24th Battalion ( Sports) who was killed at Thelus/Arras 13 April 1917 aged 30. He was born in Leeds, Yorkshire 1886

There is a Victory Medal issued for him on PRO

He was the son of Dr Walter SCOTT and Elizabeth Saies SCOTT - his wife was Eva Katherine and the family were living at North Kensington during the war

If you are still doing look ups, I would really appreciate any information you may find on him. I think he was a rifleman.

Kind regards

Jocelyn

Sydney Australia

Hi Jocelyn,

I'am sorry for the delay in my reply.

Although there is not much info for the 24th R.F. on the date you requested,I hope the following is useful to you,there is however no mention of Walter Scott,this is not unusual as the book rarely mentions O.R.s.

On the 13th it was discovered that the battalion on the left of the 24th R.F. had found the railway line unoccupied and it was decided to advance immediately.Under heavy artillery fire the Fusiliers reached the railway line and then a line from the eastern edge of Willerval to Bailleul.This line covered the sugar factory in the orchard of which a German naval 6 inch gun was captured.The line was consolidated for the night.

There is no mention of casualties.

Regards.

Stu

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Chris_B

Stu,

A quick question. Does O'Neil's book cover the Battalions of the London Regiment affiliated to the Royal Fusilers, as in 1st, 2nd. 3rd , 4th and 9th London(Royal Fusiliers)?

Regards,

Chris.

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bmac

Chris,

It covers, fairly briefly, 1-4th London Regt but very little to none about the rest. A lot of the London Regiment battalions have their own regimental histories but only the 2nd and 4th of the London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) do. I have those two plus the 5th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 14th and 16th London Regt battalion histories and I know ones exist for: 6th, 7th, 8th, 15th, 18th, 2/19th, 2/20th, 21st, 23rd, 25th and 28th but some of these cover a lot more than just WW1

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Chris_B

Bill,

Rather than clutter up this thread. perhaps I could send you a PM about some men in those London Regiment Battalions.

Regards,

Chris.

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Eastaviation

Do you have any reference to 9th Battalion Royal Fusiliers. and if they served with KOYLI.

I`m looking for info on Edward Clark 48912.

Thanks

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Teresa in Wirral

Hi can you tell me anything about the 1st/4th London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers)

especially what they were doing doing on 9th September 1916.

I have an Alfred H Bailey Private 4431 and 281828 who died that day

that I think is in our family. Unfortunately there isn't a service record nor next of kin on CWGC.

But the place of birth and residence is correct for the one above on Soldiers Died.

Thank you Teresa

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biggles1

Hi Stu,

It seems to have been a while since the last posting on this thread but I have just joined the forum and would be indebted if you can help me with my research.

I am after information on the following Royal Fusiliers soldier who later became an airman.

Lieutenant Eric Hinckes Bird. Royal Flying Corps late Royal Fusiliers. Lieutenant Bird Died of Wounds recieved in combat on 26th June 1916.

Thank you in advance.

Kind Regards,

Mark

Hamilton, New Zealand

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stu

post-1036-1173225629.png

Hi Mark,

I can't find anything in the book about him,but I found this on the Times archive(13/6/16) that might be of interest.

Regards.

Stuart

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