craig1985taylor Posted 3 July , 2016 Share Posted 3 July , 2016 This is my Great Grandad Arthur William Butt, born in 1881. He was a carpet weaver from Kidderminster before moving to Halifax in 1911. I don't know to much about his war history & was hoping someone on here might be able to help or show me where best to look? My Grandad always said his Dad had joined up under the false name Robert Sinclair & after a bit of digging i was able to find out that was true. On the 1918 absent voters list for Kidderminster he is listed under his correct name Arthur William Butt with the soldier number 287676 & i have found a medal index card for a Robert Sinclair who was in the Hampshire Regiment number 16329 & later in the Labour Corp 287676 which corresponds with his number on the absent voters list. Also in the photograph of him in his uniform he appears to have a labour corp badge on his cap. Is there anyway to find out more about his time during the war? What battalion he would of been in & where he would of gone? Why would he of been transferred to the labour Corps? My Grandad always thought he was injured at the somme & had returned home after that to recuperate before returning to war, could this be why he ended up in a different regiment? From the medal index card it says he served in the 2B theatre of war which would of been Gallipoli, entering on the 17 July 1915, could he of still ended up at the Somme after going to Gallipoli? Is there any other documents i could look up to find more information about him? I've tried the burnt files but can't find anything there so assume his must be among the ones destroyed. Any hell would be very appreciated. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butler Posted 19 July , 2016 Share Posted 19 July , 2016 Robert Sinclair is numbered in a block of men most of whom are shown on their MICs as having served with the Ox & Bucks LI prior to transfer to the Hampshire Regiment. It is quite possible that he had initially enlisted with the Ox & Bucks LI but had not served overseas prior to transfer to the Hampshire Regt some time between 27.4.15 and 2.6.15. He would appear to have be sent out to Gallipoli as part of a reinforcement draft, most probably to 2 Bn who later fought on the Somme. His Labour Corps number was issued between Jun-Sept 1917. He was transferred to Class Z Army Reserve 2.5.19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 19 July , 2016 Share Posted 19 July , 2016 Hi Craig, He appears to have some kind of transcribed 1916 hospital admissions/discharge record (from the MH 106 records held at the National Archives) as 16329 Sinclair (Hampshire Regiment) on Forces War Records here. Sorry I can't tell you what it says - I don't subscribe to the site. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordercollie Posted 21 July , 2016 Share Posted 21 July , 2016 This is the hospital record that CLK referred to. It seems that Robert Sinclair was transferred from 19 General Hospital in Alexandria to the Convalescent Hospital at Montazah on 11/03/16. It confirms that his battalion prior to admission was 2/Hampshire and that he was in X Coy which might help you to get a better understanding of his experiences when you read the war diary. Sinclair R.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 22 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2016 On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 22:06, butler said: Robert Sinclair is numbered in a block of men most of whom are shown on their MICs as having served with the Ox & Bucks LI prior to transfer to the Hampshire Regiment. It is quite possible that he had initially enlisted with the Ox & Bucks LI but had not served overseas prior to transfer to the Hampshire Regt some time between 27.4.15 and 2.6.15. He would appear to have be sent out to Gallipoli as part of a reinforcement draft, most probably to 2 Bn who later fought on the Somme. His Labour Corps number was issued between Jun-Sept 1917. He was transferred to Class Z Army Reserve 2.5.19 Thank you so much for your help thats great information that helped fill in a few more blanks for me, so he wouldn't of had Ox & Bucks listed on his medal card as it was before he served overseas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 22 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2016 On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 23:06, clk said: Hi Craig, He appears to have some kind of transcribed 1916 hospital admissions/discharge record (from the MH 106 records held at the National Archives) as 16329 Sinclair (Hampshire Regiment) on Forces War Records here. Sorry I can't tell you what it says - I don't subscribe to the site. Regards Chris Hi Chris thank you for pointing to this record i wouldn't even of know where to start looking. At least the story of him being sent to a hospital seem to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 22 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2016 8 hours ago, Bordercollie said: This is the hospital record that CLK referred to. It seems that Robert Sinclair was transferred from 19 General Hospital in Alexandria to the Convalescent Hospital at Montazah on 11/03/16. It confirms that his battalion prior to admission was 2/Hampshire and that he was in X Coy which might help you to get a better understanding of his experiences when you read the war diary. Sinclair R.pdf Hi thank you very much for sharing the document thats helped alot so it looks like he definitely was in the 2nd Battalion & has even narrowed it down to X Coy as well which i never expected to find out! Can't wait to have a look through the war diary now i know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 22 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2016 I had always wondered if he might of originally joined the West Riding Regiment being from Halifax? And after you saying he might of been drafted in from another regiment i looked up there different Battalions. I found the 9th (Service) Battalion had formed at Halifax in September 1914. They eventually moved to Hursley Park Hampshire in June 1915. Which is just before he was drafted into the Hampshire Regiment? Could this be a possibility? Or would he of definitely been drafted in from the Ox & Bucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 July , 2016 Share Posted 22 July , 2016 Hi Craig, It's worth looking at records for men with near numbers in the Hampshire Regiment to see if any inferences can be made. So for the limited sample I took: 16324 Charlton - SDGW says "formerly 8359 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry" 16325 16326 Clark - service papers show posted from O&BLI 28.5.15 16327 Dobbins - SDGW says "formerly 10372 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry" 16328 16329 Sinclair 16330 16331 Wakelin - service papers show posted from O&BLI 28.5.15 16332 16333 Caldwell - service papers show posted from O&BLI 28.5.15 16334 Vigers - SDGW says "formerly 17179 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry" It seems most likely that he was part of a block transfer from the O&BLI to the Hampshire Regiment on 28th May 1915. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 22 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 July , 2016 49 minutes ago, clk said: Hi Craig, It's worth looking at records for men with near numbers in the Hampshire Regiment to see if any inferences can be made. So for the limited sample I took: 16324 Charlton - SDGW says "formerly 8359 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry" 16325 16326 Clark - service papers show posted from O&BLI 28.5.15 16327 Dobbins - SDGW says "formerly 10372 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry" 16328 16329 Sinclair 16330 16331 Wakelin - service papers show posted from O&BLI 28.5.15 16332 16333 Caldwell - service papers show posted from O&BLI 28.5.15 16334 Vigers - SDGW says "formerly 17179 Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry" It seems most likely that he was part of a block transfer from the O&BLI to the Hampshire Regiment on 28th May 1915. Regards Chris Hi Chris thank you, it definitely looks like he was originally part of the Ox & Bucks LI from what you've said. I wonder what made him join up so far away from where he lived? My Grandad said he changed his name so his wife wouldn't be able to claim any of his pay! I wonder if he went somewhere no one would reconise him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 24 July , 2016 Share Posted 24 July , 2016 Hi Craig, Two further snippets of information for you. War Diary extract of 2nd Hants at Helles (Gallipoli) for 17th July 1915 reads: 3 a.m. Embarked on 'ELKAHIRA' and reached LEMNOS about 10 a.m., disembarked and bivouacked on dust heap about 1 p.m. Draft of 4 officers 300 other ranks, mainly Oxon & Bucks Light Infy joined...... Robert Sinclair is listed on a Hampshire Regiment casualty list (Sep 1916) as wounded (shrapnel wound to the scalp) and in France. As his Labour Corps number was issued between Jun-Sept 1917 this may have been the wound that subsequently led to his transfer to the Labour Corps. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 24 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2016 28 minutes ago, Marc Thompson said: Hi Craig, Two further snippets of information for you. War Diary extract of 2nd Hants at Helles (Gallipoli) for 17th July 1915 reads: 3 a.m. Embarked on 'ELKAHIRA' and reached LEMNOS about 10 a.m., disembarked and bivouacked on dust heap about 1 p.m. Draft of 4 officers 300 other ranks, mainly Oxon & Bucks Light Infy joined...... Robert Sinclair is listed on a Hampshire Regiment casualty list (Sep 1916) as wounded (shrapnel wound to the scalp) and in France. As his Labour Corps number was issued between Jun-Sept 1917 this may have been the wound that subsequently led to his transfer to the Labour Corps. Marc Hi Marc, thank you so much that has helped a great deal & matches what my Great Auntie (his daughter) told me, she said he had taken shrapnel to his head in an explosion. Is there anyway to find out what he would of been doing in the Labour Corps or where we would of been serving? Thanks again Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 24 July , 2016 Share Posted 24 July , 2016 Hi Craig, I can't help with your specific question but as a general source on the Labour Corps I would recommend having a look at Starling and Lee's book 'No Labour, No Battle'. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 24 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2016 2 hours ago, Marc Thompson said: Hi Craig, I can't help with your specific question but as a general source on the Labour Corps I would recommend having a look at Starling and Lee's book 'No Labour, No Battle'. Marc Hi Marc, Thank you ill look into getting that book. Is there a good place online to look at the 2nd Battalion Hampshire Regiment war diaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Thompson Posted 24 July , 2016 Share Posted 24 July , 2016 Hi Craig, If you haven't done so already I suggest that you get hold of the 'Royal Hampshire Regiment 1914-18' by C.T. Atkinson. This is a good starting point and for the period that you are interested in (circa Jul 1915 - Sep 1916) more informative as a summary record of activity than the Battalion War Diary. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig1985taylor Posted 25 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2016 Hi Marc, Thank you for this suggestion I've just ordered a copy, can't wait to read more about what he did Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now