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Crab

Army Service Corps (MT) War Diaries

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Crab

Before submitting this request, I read the very interesting post by KazFletch (12Feb15) and the very helpful response by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr and wonder is there a solution to my problem?

Firstly I am a fully paid-up member of Ancestry and have fully investigated (I hope) their records, in particular their Army Records.

1.  I have recently discovered that my grandfather who served with the 283rd MT Coy. was awarded the Military Medal (MM) on 15 Jun 1917, the fact was entered on his docs on 5 Jul 1917 with what appears to be "Auth: VII Corps."

2.  His Medal Roll Index Card shows 1914/15 Star entitlement, when he was a Pte, as being 18 Jul 15 and the British War and Victory medals added sometime later when he was an Acting Sgt ie after 14 Oct 1918 when he was appointed.

3.  A further Record entry re his MM award stated Lond Gaz 20 or 28 Jul 1917; however, there was no mention of military awards in the 20 Jul edition of the London Gazette and there was no Gazette published on the 28th Jul.

4.  I finally managed to get to the ASC Diaries list but the nearest I could get to the 283rd MT Coy was the 284th Coy.

5.  Finally, I know that no citations were given with MMs; however, I would very much like to know where the action took place which led to his award.  Is there a sure way of directing my search for the 283rd War Diaries about Jun/Jul 1917?

Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

Regards
Crab

PS I also found that Grandfather served with 14 different different MT Coys from 1916 to 1918 - hardly had time to empty his kit bag!! 

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Phil Evans

If all else fails, you can download it from the National Archives.

 

WO95/817/6

 

Phil

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Hi Crab,

 

I have downloaded the diaries for 283 Coy (MT) ASCfrom the NA.

I will have a look now to see what is documented for that time.

 

I don't think that ASC diaries are available yet on Ancestry.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
9 hours ago, Crab said:

I also found that Grandfather served with 14 different different MT Coys from 1916 to 1918 - hardly had time to empty his kit bag!! 

 

Yes, a similar story with my GF.

A transfer from one Siege Park to the next, maybe only a few miles, meant a transfer from one Corps to the next. Consequently a transfer to a new ASC (MT) Coy.

Do these company numbers tally with his?

272, 403, 593,594, 641,717,770, 884,886

 

What was his name by the way?

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

30/5/1917 Company HQ at Boisleux-au-Mont     MM awarded to Pte. Church, V. M2/203986

9/6/1917 Company HQ at Boisleux-au-Mont     MM awarded to act. Cpl Buckland M2/091407

18/6/1917 Company HQ at Boisleux-au-Mont     MM awarded to

A/LCpl Powell O.M. M2/203324

Pte. O'Callaghan, J.J. M2/203821

A/Cpl Treleaven, T.D. M2/183789

Pte.Savage, O. M2/105648

Pte. Drury, C.D. M2/200306

Pte. Sylvester, A.G. M2/ 229994

Cpl. Brazier, T.D. M2/ 106334

a/LCpl. Wilson A.M. M2/104708

 

HQ moved on 20/6/17 to Boiry St. Rictrude

 

It looks as all these awards were made to Drivers.

The company at this time was drawing ammunition from Fosseux, Beaumetz, Mercatel, Wanquetin

 

This area is about 10-15km south of Arras.

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Crab

Dai Bach

You've done it again - you're spot on.

1.  Taking the MT Company's you listed, they all match plus:

     335 MT Coy on the 5 Jun 16 when it was attached to XIII Corps Heavy Arty and

     654 MT Coy when it was attached to XIV Corps.

     Couldn't identify 717, 770 and 884 MT Coys though.

     Many thanks for the location of the 283 MT Coy HQ at the time of his award.

2.  Grandfather was Cpl BRAZIER T D M2/106334 and he was indeed a Driver.

3.  Can I attribute grandfather's award to that of the Arras Offensive which I believe ran from 9 Apr to 16 Jun 17?

4.  As there will likely be no citation with the London Gazette entry, the Theatre of Operation will have to suffice for his record.  I can imagine he was in a group of drivers who were working their socks off, in lousy conditions, humping ammunition to the Front in hard-wheel trucks.

5.  Find it strange that grandfather's Medal Roll was never updated to include his MM - slack admin?

Once again many many thanks for your painstaking research on my behalf. 

In grandfather's honour, I think I will frame a set of replica medals for my grandchildren with the history behind them.

Crab (ex RAF).

 

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Thanks crab,

All these companies were Siege Parks, basically the companies that were responsible for moving the Heavy Artillery around for the Siege Batteries of the RGA, as well as supplying that ammunition to the batteries.

.

They could be driving lorries, or caterpillar tractors for the big guns (9.2" Howz and up).

Each Corps would have its own Siege Park MT Company, as would each Army.

 

283 MT Coy ASC was VII Corps (G Corps) Siege Park, aka. G SAP

272 was I ANZAC SP, their records are available free at the Australian War Memorial:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RCDIG1000066/

You may have to look around several of the sub-series- 13/4, 13/7 for I ANZAC, 13/5 & 13/8 for 2 ANZAC (for which 403 MT Coy was Siege Park).

 

1 hour ago, Crab said:

3.  Can I attribute grandfather's award to that of the Arras Offensive which I believe ran from 9 Apr to 16 Jun 17?

Yes, that's correct.

1 hour ago, Crab said:

I can imagine he was in a group of drivers who were working their socks off, in lousy conditions, humping ammunition to the Front in hard-wheel trucks.

Yes, and pulling artillery pieces around.

 

1 hour ago, Crab said:

In grandfather's honour, I think I will frame a set of replica medals for my grandchildren with the history behind them.

A very apt tribute if I may say.

I have on my desk now my grandfather's SD tunic buttons. The tales they could tell.....

 

 

I have looked at TD Brazier's record, and he was in 717 MT Coy (9 Corps SP) 15-22/11/1917,   770 MT Coy (Fifth Army SP) 25/2/1918- 9/3/1918, and 884 MT Coy (19 Corps SP) 9/3/1918- 7/4/1918.

 

It is interesting to note that he and my grandfather were in the same MT Companies  on several occasions:

24/3/1917-19/4/1917    283 MT Coy (7 Corps SP)

15/7/1917- 5/9/1917     604 Coy (15 Corps SP)

11/4/1918-15/4/1918    641 MT Coy (3 Corps SP)

19/5/1918- 9/6/1918     272 MT Coy (I ANZAC SP)

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Crab

Dai Bach

Many thanks for the Australian War Memorial series on the 1 ANZAC Siege Park War Diaries which of course led on to the 1st Australian Siege Battery Ammunition Column reports.  Absolutely fascinating reading, particularly the Ammo Col reports - I notice the Aussies do include brief citations with their awards to NCO's, nice touch.

I can see I have a lot more reading and I much appreciate your guidance on the whole adventure of ASC MT Coys during WWI.

Like to think our grandfather's may have met sometime along the line.

My best wishes.

Crab

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Crab

Dai Bach

Sorry to come back to you again.

I'm pleased to say that Ancestry now have the War Diaries available, so I thought I will "fiil my boots."  However, I don't seem to be able to get anywhere near the ASC 583 MT Coy diaries.

For location, I've entered Boisleux-au-Mont as the Company HQ for the month of Jun 1917, and the location is not recognised.

I've also tried entering variations on 283 MT Coy/283 Coy/HQ 283 Coy/283 Coy HQ all under Army Service Corps, all with no success.

Is there some trick to narrow the search please?

Regards
Crab

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Ron Clifton

Hello Crab

 

The trick is to get the syntax right, and this may even include the full stops! It trips everybody up.

[7 CORPS]
WO 95/817 Corps Siege Park (283 Company A.S.C.) 1916 Nov. - 1919 Mar.  

 

Ron

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
6 hours ago, Crab said:

However, I don't seem to be able to get anywhere near the ASC 583 MT Coy diaries.

 

Hi Crab,

Sorry. have I missed something?

Where does 583 Coy fit in?

Do you mean 283?

 

If you go to Discovery at the National Archive:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

 

In the Search box, type in WO95  283  (That's a capital O not the number zero!  WO as in War Office).

Tick the box that says " Available to download from The National Archives " and press Enter.

That will give a list of 11 or 12 files with titles containing those search strings.

You can further refine your search by selecting a date range on the left hand side.

 

In the list, scroll down until you come to the file with the title that Ron gave above.

If all else fails... the direct link to it is http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/9fc3828daf9449b89ee6dc77fa4c227b

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Crab

Dai Bach

Of course 283 MT Coy, senility is creeping in!

 

Dai Bach

Ron Clifton

Phil Evans

Many thanks gentlemen for all your help in tracking down my grandfather's ASC record and latterly my access to the 283 Coy's War Diaries.

From what I've read so far, an fascinating picture of the drivers feeding the front line often in horrendous circumstances.

My regards to you all

Crab.

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amars8

Hallo everybody in the forum,

I'm writing from Italy. I'm doing some research about three british soldiers of the B.E.F. who are buried in Mantova Town Cemetery.

One of them, Private Percival Hook Green ( M2/021339 ) was in the Army Service Corps and died 19th of November 1917, but I don't know in what circumstances.

Can someone please help me in finding out the Diares of the A.S.C. which can be useful for my research?

Thank you for your help.

Best regards,

 

Alberto

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Hi Alberto,

His Medal Index Card states he was "Accidentally Killed".

This suggests an accident rather than being a battle casualty.

His card states the home address of his next of kin  was 64 Poole Road, Branksome, Bournemouth.

He is referred to as 'Percy Green'  and 'P.P.H.Green' on this card.

He first went abroad, to France on December 19th 1914.

I shall look for a service record.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

He has a surviving service record.

I will look at this now.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

From his Service Records on Ancestry

Link

"Died at 38 Casualty Clearing GS  (?General Station), Italy

 

of Compound Fracture of Skull (Accidental).

 

Attending Heavy Artillery 23   Division"

 

He was a Motor Lorry Driver when he attested on December 5th 1914.

 

After an extremely short period of training at Grove Park, London, he was posted abroad after only 14 days!

 

Initially he was in 3rd Division Supply Column, transferred to 358 Company (MT) ASC on 26/9/1916.

 

Early in the morning of November 30th 1917, he was driving a Sunbeam motor car (No 17548) near the village of Marcaria, when he crashed off the road, possibly after skidding on ice on a poor road surface.The car was upside down in a ditch.

 

He was found by local villagers, who summoned his ASC colleagues and a Medical Officer.

When the car was lifted, Private Green was found to be dead.

 

Cause of death was:

 

"Compound Fracture of Base of Skull (Accident).

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

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