bbc wales BBC Wales. Weatherman walking, Flanders Fields.

[GWF1967]

The Beeb in Wales is beginning a month of WW1 programmes. 

 

Weatherman walking. 4th July 7:30pm BBC Wales.  Part 1 of 2. 

 

Derek Brockway tours Ypres, visiting places with a connection to Welsh soldiers. 

 

4th July  9:00pm.  Wales at the Somme.

Gareth Thomas joins an archaeological dig at Marmetz Wood to unearth his great uncles' involvement in the battle of the Somme. 

[GWF1967]

Sat. 9:00pm. BBC2 Wales. 

"The Greatest Poem of World War One.

 David Jones's In Parenthesis. 

Documentary tracing the story of World War One poem In Parenthesis, widely considered to be one of the greatest ever literary works about the war". 

[seaJane]

Can anyone put me up in Wales for the weekend?

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Can anyone put me up in Wales for the weekend?

Sorry.

We're all going to be in Paris?

[seaJane]

Ok, I'll just break in and watch your TV while you're away ?

[David Ridgus]

seaJane

 

to save you a stretch in Holloway, the programme should be on iPlayer in due course. The BBC Wales Great War programming for this summer puts the wider BBC's to shame.

 

David

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

55 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Ok, I'll just break in and watch your TV while you're away ?

I'll post you my telly!

[Knotty]

Cheaper to post your house keys

[seaJane]

I like to see a bit of teamwork. Diolch yn fawr, chaps.

 

David, thank you for reminding me that iPlayer recks nothing of borders. I'll look out for it.

 

sJ

[Jerry B]

I missed the weatherman walking but I can i player it, so dim probs.

 

I watched the Gareth Thomas program on his two uncles involvement in the Somme, one was killed in the area in advance of the start with the S.W.Bords and the other was killed with 10/RWF a few weeks after the main battles started.  It also covered the 38th Welsh divisions actions at Mametz wood and claims that they had not tried as hard as they could have.  The program included members of operation nightingale excavating a German trench.  I won't pass comment on the show, it had some issues IMO, but it was good that it was aired.

 

The one thing they did mention was that out of 120,000 Welshmen who took part in the war, 40,000 died.  I had previously heard that % wise Wales lost the most men and this shows that a third (33%) of all welsh troops died.  Can anyone confirm these figures?

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

All war related statistics need treating with a huge pinch of salt.

The Long Long Trail site gives the numbers recruited in Wales as 272,924  http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/some-british-army-statistics-of-the-great-war/

And just because someone was recruited in Wales doesn't mean they were Welsh, whereas you had Welsh recruited outside of Wales serving in non Welsh regiments. Plus Welsh in ANZAC & Canadian Armies.

Plus, where does the 40000 figure come from, I know it's widely quoted.

[Jerry B]

20 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

All war related statistics need treating with a huge pinch of salt.

The Long Long Trail site gives the numbers recruited in Wales as 272,924  http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/some-british-army-statistics-of-the-great-war/

And just because someone was recruited in Wales doesn't mean they were Welsh, whereas you had Welsh recruited outside of Wales serving in non Welsh regiments. Plus Welsh in ANZAC & Canadian Armies.

Plus, where does the 40000 figure come from, I know it's widely quoted.

 

Which is why I ask.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

44 minutes ago, Jerry B said:

 

Which is why I ask.

I'm not aware that the 40,000 figure has ever been centrally collated.

I'm not sure, but I think it's an aggregated (estimated) figure collated from War Memorials primarily.

In West Wales for example, the excellent West Wales Memorials Project has identified 5100 dead from a 1911 census population of 316,690 (1.6%).

The figure is complicated by some people being commemorated on more than one memorial.

If the same proportion were replicated throughout Wales (1911 population- 2,442,041), one might expect 39,327 deaths.

A huge 'if', but a reasonable ballpark figure.

 

Until someone (or many) sit down and create a specific database, then that figure will just be an estimate.

[Jerry B]

7 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I'm not aware that the 40,000 figure has ever been centrally collated.

I'm not sure, but I think it's an aggregated (estimated) figure collated from War Memorials primarily.

In West Wales for example, the excellent West Wales Memorials Project has identified 5100 dead from a 1911 census population of 316,690 (1.6%).

The figure is complicated by some people being commemorated on more than one memorial.

If the same proportion were replicated throughout Wales (1911 population- 2,442,041), one might expect 39,327 deaths.

A huge 'if', but a reasonable ballpark figure.

 

Until someone (or many) sit down and create a specific database, then that figure will just be an estimate.

 

 

Dai Bach,

 

thanks for taking the time to elaborate on this.  I remember previously hearing that Wales lost a higher % of its troops than any other nation and the recent TV show reignited a desire to know the truth of the matter.

 

Diolch.

[Steven Broomfield]

It might be that I am being  bit dim (in the English, not Welsh, sense), but why the weatherman? Was it not raining in Wales that weekend, or something?

[cullbaggie]

thanks for showing what i have missed, i went delving around on catch up on Sky.

the welsh at Mametz is in catch up history and there are 2 other in Documetries

i am downloading now

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

4 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

It might be that I am being  bit dim (in the English, not Welsh, sense), but why the weatherman? Was it not raining in Wales that weekend, or something?

Derek Brockway, the BBC Wales weatherman is a bit of an institution in Wales.

He has his own series on BBC Wales, called Weatherman Walking, and the Great War Walks are an extension of that.

Around Ypres this week with the Holts, and the next one is about Mametz.

[GWF1967]

10:00pm BBC2 Wales.

 In Parenthesis: the Opera. Documentary following rehearsals for the new opera. 

 

10:30. BBC2. Wales.

The Wipers Times. Drama based on the true story. 

 

Sunday 10:20pm BBC2 Wales.

Welsh Towns at War. 1/2. Swansea. Eddie Butler uncovers life in Welsh towns during WW1. 

 

Monday. 10:40. BBC1 Wales. Visions of WW1. Kim Howells recounts how Welsh artists portrayed WW1. 

 

Tuesday. 10:40pm.BBC1 Wales.

 Welsh Women of WW1. Historian Deirdre Beddoe  meets modern day women working in jobs that were opened up to women during the war. 

 

[Seadog]

Not another "dig" what are they digging up this time?

 

4th July  9:00pm.  Wales at the Somme.

Gareth Thomas joins an archaeological dig at Marmetz Wood to unearth his great uncles' involvement in the battle of the Somme. 

 

Norman

 

PS : Who or what is Operation Nightingale?

[Bernard_Lewis]

Ahem. I appear in the Eddie Butler documentary having helped the Beeb with research and contacts. Still awaiting my BAFTA, though. Maybe they've lost my address? 

 

Bernard

[healdav]

On 6.7.2016 at 02:32, seaJane said:

I like to see a bit of teamwork. Diolch yn fawr, chaps.

 

David, thank you for reminding me that iPlayer recks nothing of borders. I'll look out for it.

 

sJ

Unless you aren't in Britain.

 

[Jerry B]

I just watched the weatherman walking episode, well done I thought.

 

I noticed that in this they also quoted the figure of 40,000 welsh dead in the great war.

 

I assume sometimes such figures get ingrained regardless of any uncertainty over the origin or accuracy.  It would be good if anyone in the know can chip in here?

[clive_hughes]

Wish I was a bit more in the know; but for what it's worth the figure that used to be quoted for Wales' war dead was 35,000 - the number in the book of remembrance held at the Temple of Peace in Cardiff.  This was completed in the late 1920s and is organised by unit: RN and RAF treated as one, the  Army by regiment and (in the case of the three Welsh regiments) battalion.  Plus Mercantile Marine and miscellaneous.

 

Having looked at this during its recent travels round Wales, I can see that the Welsh regiments' pages include anyone born anywhere who died serving in their ranks. A very quick search (couple of pages) revealed a New Yorker, a Dane, and someone from Crossmaglen in Northern Ireland.   In English units, there were often only a handful of Welsh-born recorded.  So the 35,000, regardless of any other considerations, are persons born in Wales or associated with the Principality by serving in a Welsh regiment at time of death.  Obviously, that's not the same as saying that "35,000 Welshmen died in the war".   Soldiers Died in the Great War must have been a principal source for the compilers. 

 

In any case the other considerations above complicate matters enormously.  The 1911 census shows that 11.1 per cent of all males shown born in Wales were enumerated in England that night; while 17.4 per cent of males enumerated in Wales were actually born in England.  The other factor is that of course men went on dying of the effects of the war for years after the Armistice.  One wonders how many of these were incorporated in anyone's statistics, let alone the Book of Remembrance?  One minor oddity is also the county of Radnorshire which lay in the 53rd Recruiting Area (incl.Shropshire), not any of the Welsh ones; and Monmouthshire which some authorities included and others excluded when it came to playing statistics.

 

if the figure is based on war memorials in Wales, that's probably a better one to go with, despite the inevitable duplications - bear in mind that many who could have been included (post-war dead; people who had been born in an area but moved away) would easily balance that out.

 

Clive 

[GWF1967]

On 7 July 2016 at 08:30, Seadog said:

Not another "dig" what are they digging up this time?

 

4th July  9:00pm.  Wales at the Somme.

Gareth Thomas joins an archaeological dig at Marmetz Wood to unearth his great uncles' involvement in the battle of the Somme. 

 

Norman

 

PS : Who or what is Operation Nightingale?

Ex- service men involved in the excavation of previously unmapped German front, and reserve line positions within Mametz wood following  mapping of the floor of the wood from the air. 

 I for one found it interesting as I'm currently reading " The Welsh at Mametz Wood" by GWF member/author Dr Jonathan Hicks. 

[Ron da Valli]

I too watched "Weatherman Walking". I thought it the better of the two BBC programmes on last week.  The interaction between Derek and the Holts worked well. The Gareth Tomas programme was (for me) spoilt by Gareth Thomas. ITV Wales had a couple of programmes on last week. These 2 were the best of the lot, with archive footage of interviews with veterans. Eddie Butler was an ideal choice of presenter. Dr Jonathan Hicks also appeared in both programmes.