Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

GWF1967

98/05. Sawback and Non- SB.

Recommended Posts

GWF1967

Hi, 

I picked these up recently. The  sawback has been cleaned of nearly all of its markings, the marks on the other are clear. 

 The 1916 bayonet is 3.5cm shorter than I believe it should be. 

 

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967

Apologies for the break in transmission. 

The scabbard has had its marks removed and is missing its stud. 

The only remaining marks are the partial makers name. Any ideas welcomed. 

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967

Both have small ears and flash guards. 

 Could someone please tell me what the mark below the 16 stamp means. 

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sawdoc34

Nice bayonets, looks like ANKER-WERKE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sawdoc34

symbol below 16 is a fractur, a german acceptance mark,

Aleck 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967

There is a Gothic M on the pommel, a 2 between the grips, a V and a mark that looks a bit like a windscreen wiper switch symbol on the bottom edge of the blade. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967
1 hour ago, sawdoc34 said:

symbol below 16 is a fractur, a german acceptance mark,

Aleck 

Thank you kindly Aleck. 

  Guy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
12 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

... The only remaining marks are the partial makers name. Any ideas welcomed. 

image.jpg

 

12 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

Nice bayonets, looks like ANKER-WERKE

 

Agreed. I am away from home so will have to check the books later to see what the second line should be - but Aleck, I sent you a copy of Carter vol 1, so perhaps you can check sooner? Or are you travelling again???!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
12 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

... Could someone please tell me what the mark below the 16 stamp means. 

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

 

Heck, what happened to the blade point on that one!!!

 

12 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

symbol below 16 is a fractur, a german acceptance mark,

Aleck 

 

Agreed. GWF1967, the 'fraktur' letter is the mark of the inspector who approved the bayonet for service use.

 

12 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

There is a Gothic M on the pommel, a 2 between the grips, a V and a mark that looks a bit like a windscreen wiper switch symbol on the bottom edge of the blade. 

 

This 'Gothic M' is probably another inspector's 'fraktur' - it would be nice to see a photograph of that and also your 'windscreen wiper switch symbol'(!).

 

These 'double-maker-marked' ones are believed to be where one maker made the bayonet blade and tang, and another did the 'finishing'. In this case then in theory, as the HERDER mark is on the left side of the bayonet, they were the maker, while the DURKOPP mark on the right side of the bayonet indicates that they were the finisher. If I recall correctly, the particular type of DURKOPP mark that you have is not the most common sort used by them - but I'll have to check later. In the meantime, though, search this part of the forum and I am certain that you'll find some other HERDER and DURKOPP ones!

 

Julian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
16 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

The only remaining marks are the partial makers name. Any ideas welcomed. 

image.jpg

 

16 hours ago, sawdoc34 said:

Nice bayonets, looks like ANKER-WERKE

 

3 hours ago, trajan said:

Agreed. I am away from home so will have to check the books later to see what the second line should be - but Aleck, I sent you a copy of Carter vol 1, so perhaps you can check sooner? Or are you travelling again???!!!

 

OK, so using Carter vol 1, we have, pp.64-65, the mark as ANKER WERKE / BIELEFELD. In your case marked on the left side only so they are blade maker and finisher - unless there are traces of a mark on the right? Anker Werke often made these in collaboration with HENCKELS, and the Henckels mark could be on the right or left side... This is a nice one for the dedicated 98/05 collector as although the two-line ANKER WERKE mark is common, it is an uncommon maker (Carter says "scarce"), and examples of their sawbacked ones are even less common than any others, and examples of any with only the Anker marke rarer still. It seems that these were made only in 1917... So, a very nice find for a muggin's like me who likes the rarer makers! Check the right ricasso again in case of traces of another mark, and also the left pommel above the press-stud in case of a 'fraktur'. 

 

Julian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
16 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

 

3 hours ago, trajan said:

In this case then in theory, as the HERDER mark is on the left side of the bayonet, they were the maker, while the DURKOPP mark on the right side of the bayonet indicates that they were the finisher. If I recall correctly, the particular type of DURKOPP mark that you have is not the most common sort used by them - but I'll have to check later. In the meantime, though, search this part of the forum and I am certain that you'll find some other HERDER and DURKOPP ones!

 

Back to Carter, p.70. That is the usual Durkopp mark when they made them on their own but is also found when they made them with HERDER. 

 

Enjoy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967
9 hours ago, trajan said:

 

Heck, what happened to the blade point on that one!!!

 

 

Agreed. GWF1967, the 'fraktur' letter is the mark of the inspector who approved the bayonet for service use.

 

 

This 'Gothic M' is probably another inspector's 'fraktur' - it would be nice to see a photograph of that and also your 'windscreen wiper switch symbol'(!).

 

Julian

The blade was filthy, but still had an edge, a winning combination. I think perhaps the end was removed to make it a more useable butchers knife. 

I've noticed a couple more marks on the Sawback. It's  quite hard to tell for sure, but it looks like only one side of the blade was stamped. It seems that someone tried to remove the marks from this one, rather than just being clumsy with a grinder whilst cleaning. 

 I paid £90 so was pretty chuffed, rare or not. I found the other the next day and didn't like to haggle at £25; I did get him to throw in a few buttons though. :D

 

Many thanks for your help and information. 

 Guy. 

 

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967

Here's some feint marks on the SB. 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
On 6/25/2016 at 23:02, GWF1967 said:

Here's some feint marks on the SB. 

 

image.jpeg

 

Is that a '16'?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967

A new addition, bought with a 98/III.

IMG_6424_zpszrk9mso7.jpg

IMG_6423_zpshkpqpssh.jpg

IMG_6422_zpsermegfvb.jpg

IMG_6421_zpsfubyhifw.jpg

IMG_6420_zpszicmpjjl.jpg

IMG_6419_zpsnwksueow.jpg

Does anyone know where I could buy a spare pommel stud?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NR72

Hi All can anyone help me with these markings? i think its a Gottlieb Hammesfahr with the pyramid  but no makers name and just the fraktur on the reverse side of blade. is it a SG84_98 ? How long should it be ?

 

Thanks

FB_IMG_1478372175222.jpg

FB_IMG_1478372200310.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
12 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

...Does anyone know where I could buy a spare pommel stud?

 

Let me know if you find one - I need one as well for an Anker Werke 98/05! I think the best thing is to look for a really horrible 'Turked' example of a Wffenfabrick 98/05 and 'canibalise' it...

 

Now, what is interesting about your F.Herder is that it has what I believe to be the regular Herder 'fraktur' mark on the spine but another fraktur altogether on the pommel. My belief that the spine version is the correct one for F.Herder is based on it being found all over the place - screws and push-stud as well - on my 1915 aA F.Herder/Amberg 98/05.

 

The crossguard number - these are found on some Bavarian-used bayonets, but nobody seems to know why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
12 hours ago, NR72 said:

Hi All can anyone help me with these markings? i think its a Gottlieb Hammesfahr with the pyramid  but no makers name and just the fraktur on the reverse side of blade. is it a SG84_98 ? How long should it be ?

 

Total 38-39 cm if an S.84/98. The pyramid is indeed a Gottlieb Hammersfahr mark, and although I have not seen an S.84/98 with just a pyramid, I know that there are S.98/05 n.A.'s marked this way, a single pyramid with a cross. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967
13 hours ago, NR72 said:

Hi All can anyone help me with these markings? i think its a Gottlieb Hammesfahr with the pyramid  but no makers name and just the fraktur on the reverse side of blade. is it a SG84_98 ? How long should it be ?

 

Thanks

FB_IMG_1478372175222.jpg

FB_IMG_1478372200310.jpg

Any chance of a picture of the bayonet and scabbard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GWF1967

IMG_6250_zpszrgkqkxg.png

This frog was thrown in for free with an ASC BW+VM pair I bought.  Dated 1915.IMG_6127_zpsvxfisrkd.png

IMG_6251_zpso8funtrm.png[/URL

IMG_6252_zps8hoifnrd.png

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan
3 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

 

This frog was thrown in for free with an ASC BW+VM pair I bought.  Dated 1915.

 

Lucky bu**er! Original frogs are what I lack...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NR72

Here you go guys heres some more, appreciate an identification, thanks

handle 2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NR72

it has acceptance mark on throat of scabbard and rear of hilt

frog 3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trajan

S.98/05, with 1915-1918 steel scabbard. Looks nice! I'll take a guess on the maker and date - Waffenfabrik and W/17?;)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...