rhimsl Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Here is the info I have: Private William Dews, Northumberland Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion, Serial # S/7805 Born: Leicester / Enlisted: Leeds Private Dews died March 24, 1915, Theatre of War: France & Flanders Died How: Died Private Dews is buried at the Brompton Cemetary in London MIC states he qulified for the 1914-15 Star on March 6, 1915. I think it is very unusaul for someone to die in France, then be returned to England for burial. Can anyone shed some light on this one? Could he have possibley contracted some form of disease and shipped back to London where he died? Or could he have died of wounds after being shipped back? I've been going back and forth with this one for a few years! Thanks in advance for any and all help. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 This seems a little odd,i think that he most certainly died here in England,as the Brompton Cemetery contains a large number of men who died whilst in Hospital in England,plus there is still a Royal Brompton Hospital in London,which was used during the war.The policy of the wargraves people has always been strictly NO REPATRIATION,however i think a small number of the gentry managed to get their sons bodies back to the u.k. very early on in the War,the name of Gladstones Great Grandson comes to mind. If you can get a copy of his Death Certificate it will almost certainly tell you where he died,his age and may well tell you the cause of Death,if your information has come from SDGW it may well be in error.You can order the Death certificate over the phone,or maybe now it can be done on line....Good Luck....Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Robert Having researched the subject of repatriation for some time now, I have found no examples of any 'other rank' being repatriated to the UK. In fact only about twenty officers were ever returned before the practice was banned in mid-1915. However, what I have found is a number of men listed in SDGW as 'died F&F' who, in fact, died in the UK of wounds or illness sustained during overseas service. It seems to be a frequent error. Oddly, Brompton Cemetery does contain two of the repatriated officers - Flt Sub-Lt Warneford VC and Capt Sasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhimsl Posted 1 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Russell & Terry thanks for your thoughts! One more question: His MIC states his qulification date for his 1914-15 Star as March 6, 1915, Theatre of War: France. Wouldn't this mean that he did infact serve in France? This would mean that it was a quick round trip for him, only arriving in France 18 days before he died. Or could it be possible that he got sick on the way over and returned to France before he died in London? I think my next step would be to see if anyone knows the whereabouts of the 2nd Northumberland for this time period. Thanks again, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Hello again Robert,re your Mans time in France,there are documented cases of men being in a theatre of war for a matter of hours before being wounded or having an accident,i think if he had been ill he would have stayed at the base Hospital in case he was infectious or too sick too move,indeed even though a war was going on people still had accidents or got sick,i still think your best source of information will be his death certificate.Re illness if you check many of the Cemeterys near the big Training Areas in the uk eg Aldershot there are a lot of burials due to training accidents,illness etc,the same applies to France and Belgium.If you read Graves or Blunden they also mention Accidents during training,and later on "Green" Soldiers causing Accidents through the mishandling of Weapons.Your man could easily fit into any of the scenarios that we have thought up.If you get a definite result i would be very interested to see your results...wishing you best of luck....Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkettm Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 I had a similar problem with Pte Charles Wilson of the Northumberland Fusiliers, his CWGC and SDGW entries both stated died France and Flanders but he is buried in Tynemouth. His MIC stats DOW so assuming he was returned to depot stregth btn as wounded and then died here. Similar with yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhimsl Posted 1 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2004 No, my (or his) MIC just states: "Dead". But I'm beginning to suspect this one may be similar to yours. Does your MIC have a Qulifying Date stated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 I had a similar problem with Pte Charles Wilson of the Northumberland Fusiliers, his CWGC and SDGW entries both stated died France and Flanders but he is buried in Tynemouth. Birkettm The CWGC record does not state he died in France ? Here he is in Tynemouth. Name: WILSON Initials: C Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Northumberland Fusiliers Unit Text: Depot Bn Age: 24 Date of Death: 10/11/1917 Service No: 19781 Additional information: Son of John and Elizabeth Wilson. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: K. C. 12160. Cemetery: TYNEMOUTH (PRESTON) CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Robert Your man could have suffered any sort of accident or wound as soon as he arrived in France and returned to a UK hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 How about this one. 589 Pte J E Bianchie 1st Btn Northumberland Fusiliers DOW 13/11/1914 F&F. According to his MIC he landed in France on the 12th November & Died on the 13th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 John It certainly looks odd. I have looked at the MICs and the two for him confirm what you say. I have spoken to CWGC to see if they can confirm the date from their original records and I have also spoken to the cemetery. It seems that there are two J.E.Bianchi burials in grave C.C.767 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne (All Saints) Cemetery. One was buried on 29.11.14 (age 29) and one on 22.03.19 (age 22). I wonder if there was some sort of mix up here? I am pursuing this for my research into repatriations in case this turns out to be a genuine example of a repatriated 'other rank'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 John It certainly looks odd. I have looked at the MICs and the two for him confirm what you say. I have spoken to CWGC to see if they can confirm the date from their original records and I have also spoken to the cemetery. It seems that there are two J.E.Bianchi burials in grave C.C.767 in Newcastle-upon-Tyne (All Saints) Cemetery. One was buried on 29.11.14 (age 29) and one on 22.03.19 (age 22). I wonder if there was some sort of mix up here? I am pursuing this for my research into repatriations in case this turns out to be a genuine example of a repatriated 'other rank'. Hi Terry I thought you maybe interested in this one. If you turn up anything further would you kindly let me know please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Certainly will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 One issue that has not come to light in this thread is the fact that drafts of men were frequently accompanied by NCOs & soldiers who were part of the admin process and had 'return' tickets. These men qualified for the prescribed medals even though they got no further the docks at Boulogne! This may the case in this instant. A number of IWD REs fall into this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Thanks again Ian. I'll bear that in mind. CWGC has this man down as allocated to 'Depot' and the two MICs only say 'Dead' - no date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 John Solved part of it. Firstly he does not appear in the GRO Overseas Death Index as he would if he died in France. However, he does appear in the GRO England & Wales index as dying in the UK. His entry is... BIANCHI John E. 4th Quarter 1914. Leeds registration district. 29yrs. Vol.9b Page.532. So he died in the UK but does that mean the date of entry into France on his MIC is wrong or that he was there for only a day before coming home to die? So there is still no proven example of an 'OR' repatriated to the UK during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhimsl Posted 2 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Terry, Was wondering if you could check for my man Dews and see if the same information is available as for Bianchi. (Dews info is at the beginning of this thread.) Thanks, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkettm Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 The CWGC record does not state he died in France ? This insinuates he did. Sorry, my memorys not what it once was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud Trevor Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Having read the thread with interest, I like Terry have also seen a number of examples of soldiers buried in the UK, but where sdgw suggest they died of wounds France & Flanders. Walter Dallow of the MGC buried in Little Dewchurch, Herefordshire, and Ernest Hargrave of the West Yorks buried in Kirkstall, Leeds, are examples of this. Spud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk Posted 4 December , 2004 Share Posted 4 December , 2004 HI again Robert,i found that on outbreak of war 2nd Batt N.F. were in India,and after roughly a 4 week voyage they then landed in the uk,then after a brief spell in uk they went to Havre,and from there were again shipped out to the middle East.I am informed that the Battalion were in Havre for about 2 weeks before they again shipped out,so your Man may well have had an Accident at the base camp,or contracted some illness whilst here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russell.Gore@crawley.gov.uk Posted 4 December , 2004 Share Posted 4 December , 2004 Hello again Robert,Found this information out on another thread. 19th of March 1915 the 2nd Battalion NF relieved the 3rd Battalion of the Worcestershire Regiment at SpanbroekMolen in Belgium.Between the 20/03/15 to the 30/03/15 there were 9 men killed or wounded your mans name is mentioned in the War Diary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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