MBrockway Posted 10 July , 2007 Share Posted 10 July , 2007 Pals, I'm trying to find out more about this chap: I'm attached to this fellow, as my birthday is 15th September - the day he fell - and this memorial glass is right next to where I used to have to wait when I was late for school (not my fault, but a lazy parent ) and about to get a good dressing down! Lt Southwell used to help me keep that in perspective! As some of you know, I have an interest in the rifles regiments too, as my GF served in the KRRC. What can you all tell me about Lt Southwell and the 9th Battalion RB on 15th September 1916? I think 9/RB was in 14th (Light) Division along with 7th, 8th and 9th KRRC, as well as 7th and 8th RB. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemfc Posted 10 July , 2007 Share Posted 10 July , 2007 hi mark can only add whats on c.w.g.c. site capt,evelyn,herbert,lightfoot southwell son of rev,canonherbert burrows,southwell and annie of 5 college yard worcester aged 31 at time of death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 10 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2007 Of course 15 September 1916 was the day tanks were first used ... at Flers-Courcelette. 9/RB were in 41st Brigade, as were 7/KRRC and 8/KRRC. I can check the whereabouts of the latter two battalions via my copy of the KRRC Chronicle for 1916, which will help place the Brigade. Does anyone have 9/RB's war diary, or the 1916 RB Chronicle? This will give us more detail. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 10 July , 2007 Share Posted 10 July , 2007 Mark There are some "Long Papers" at the NA under piece number WO339/690 for this Officer. You also may have noticed that the CWGC site shows the Lt as being in ,or attached to, the 13th Bn (111 Bde 34 Div) ! Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 10 July , 2007 Share Posted 10 July , 2007 Mark, Go to the search engine and put in "Two Men, One Memorial" it is the Memorial Book to this officer and Malcom White, both in the Rifle Brigade. I placed the book in the Documentary section under reference books some time ago, including pictures of him. Contact me if you need more. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 10 July , 2007 Share Posted 10 July , 2007 If you need more, I have the 9th RB War Diary, you will need the 1920 Rifle Brigade Chronicle for the 9th's War Service record (also have) and the 14th Div War Diary if you need it. However, read the book, you will find it a good read with all the details you need, and all on the forum. Both officers were teachers at Shrewsbury School and known as "The Men" there. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 10 July , 2007 Share Posted 10 July , 2007 Evelyn Southwell Born: March 19, 1886. Eton: King's Scholar - January 1899. Magdalen College: Demy 1904. 1st Class in Moderations, 1906. 2nd Class in Literae Humaniores, 1908. Stroke of College eight. Head of the River 1905 & 1906. O.U.B.C. Trials 1905 & 1906. University Crew 1907 & 1908. Stewards Challenge Cup 1907 Leander Crew 1908 Spare man for the Olympic Crew 1908 Assistant Master at Shrewsbury School 1910. I also have his officers papers if you need something from them Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2007 .. .. I also have his officers papers if you need something from them Andy Andy - sorry, I've been away sailing in Scotland, and I'm back up there for a proper holiday at the end of this week! This is fantastic. I'll study it in more detail and get back to you! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2007 Andy - your material is beyond my wildest hopes! When I put up this Topic, I was expecting possibly a little extra detail on an unknown person who I'd felt an emotional attachment with at school in the 1970's ... but only because of the coincidence of my birthday with the date of his death. I've had a very quick skim through your thread and this man has come alive! When I went back to seek out this memorial glass and research the man, the rifles regiment connection with my GF being in KRRC seemed a curious coincidence. The coincidences are now even spookier and I have much more in common with Southwell than I could ever have imagined ... or predicted when I first saw his memorial when I was 11 - I was at New College, Oxford; got the same results, though in a different subject; was cox of the College VIII, an OUBC, and later an Olympic, triallist ... though I was not selected in either in the end On the river at Oxford in Southwell's time, New College was Magdalen College's greatest rival, both colleges dominating the Headship over the turn of the century, and both college crews raced in the 1912 Olympics at Stockholm. They faced each other in the Final over a course that had a sharp bend which favoured one of the lanes. New College won the toss, but following the corinthian spirit of the times gave the choice of station to Magdalen, who were rowing as GB under Leander colours. Those same conventions dictated that having been offered the choice of lane, Magdalen should have either graciously taken the disadvantaged lane, or passed the choice back to the winner of the toss. However they didn't, chose the advantaged lane and went on to win the Gold Medal by less than the distance the bend was reckoned to be worth ... well that's the way the New College men told it anyway This gross act of unsportmanship gave rise to the New College VIII's war cry of "G.D.B.M." - i.e. God damn bloody Magdalen - used ever since! Such "play up and play the game" traditions were to seem very distant on the Somme a mere four years later ... or then and again, perhaps not? Incidentally I forgot to say when I began the Topic that the memorial glass is in the cloisters of Worcester Cathedral, where Southwell's father was Canon. I'll away now to read the material in more detail. Thanks again! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 17 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2007 Just to make it a bit easier for other Pals to find Stiletto's wonderful Memorial to this man, click here to reach his Topic: Two Men - One Memorial, The Story of two Shrewsbury Schoolteachers ... and, again for convenience, here's the post in that Topic with a picture of Evelyn Southwell: Photo of Lt EHL Southwell Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 July , 2007 Share Posted 17 July , 2007 Mark, Thought that you might like the book, a good read and story of these two men. Glad that it has helped you, enjoy the book. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 17 July , 2007 Share Posted 17 July , 2007 Andy - sorry, I've been away sailing in Scotland, and I'm back up there for a proper holiday at the end of this week! This is fantastic. I'll study it in more detail and get back to you! Cheers, Mark When you read the book, look out for the bit about the training officer and the compasses. it still makes me laugh. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 July , 2007 Share Posted 17 July , 2007 Mark, A lot of coincidences there, I am glad that the Memorial book to these two remarkable men has made Evelyn come alive to you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 18 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2007 Mark, A lot of coincidences there, I am glad that the Memorial book to these two remarkable men has made Evelyn come alive to you. Andy How would you feel if I approached the Dean & Chapter at Worcester Cathedral about putting some of this information into a temporary display board next to Southwell's Memorial Window? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 18 July , 2007 Share Posted 18 July , 2007 Mark, Not a problem, if it helps some of the Worcester people understand a little more about these men and what they went through I am all for it. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 30 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2007 Mark, Not a problem, if it helps some of the Worcester people understand a little more about these men and what they went through I am all for it. Andy Sorry about the extended silence - been up in Scotland sailing and unable to get my daily GWF fix I'll start moving on this with the Dean & Chapter at Worcester. Cheers, Mark PS Andy - my reply to your PM got bounced as your Inbox is full! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 1 August , 2007 Share Posted 1 August , 2007 Mark, My PM box seems to be filled as soon as I empty it these days. Let me know if you need scans of parts of the book. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 1 August , 2007 Share Posted 1 August , 2007 Andy comes up with the goods again. What a nice thread. I hope that some extra information can be placed near to that window. Please keep us advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 1 August , 2007 Share Posted 1 August , 2007 Ian, Glad that you found the thread after talking about this chap with you in Ypres. I hope that you might be able to get a little more information with regard to your relation who served and gave his life while with the 9th Rifle Brigade. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 1 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2007 Mark, .. Let me know if you need scans of parts of the book. Andy Andy, I have just spoken with the Worcester Cathedral Librarian. He would be very interested in receiving information on Evelyn Southwell. How big is the memorial book? Could you scan the title page and the contents page for me? That'll give me an idea of the scale of the task. They are a little more cautious about the display board suggestion, but you can see they would be - they have no idea what I am likely to come up with I'm confident though that they'll be happy to put something next to the memorial window once I've won their confidence! Like the other Pals, I feel sure the cathedral authorities will recognise the human story and local interest here and happily agree in the end. Incidentally, the window is only about 200 yards from the house in College Green where Evelyn's parents were living and from where many of the letters were written. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 1 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 August , 2007 I have just spoken with the Worcester Cathedral Librarian. Funnily enough he is also very well acquainted with the master I mentioned at the start of the Topic who would have been giving me the roasting for being late He has only just retired from the school and is still a well known character in the city. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 2 August , 2007 Share Posted 2 August , 2007 Mark, I will scan the title page for you and send it this weekend and have a look to see how much of the book concerns Evelyn. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 3 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2007 Mark, I will scan the title page for you and send it this weekend and have a look to see how much of the book concerns Evelyn. Andy Cheers Andy - I've just sent you my e-mail address. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 5 August , 2007 Share Posted 5 August , 2007 Mark, Title page sent to your work address. Are you interested just in the war time part with Evelyn or before the war, as it is going to be difficult to seperate the pre war part as the two lives are so entwined. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 6 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 6 August , 2007 Mark, Title page sent to your work address. Are you interested just in the war time part with Evelyn or before the war, as it is going to be difficult to seperate the pre war part as the two lives are so entwined. Andy Andy - some great news! I have found the whole book scanned and turned into a .PDF at this website: 'Two Men: A Memoir' on Canadian Libraries section of Archive.org The .PDF is reachable from the box on the left hand side of the screen. Be warned though: the .PDF is 19+MB! Many of the other books from McMaster Library (Hamilton, Ontario) seem to have a Great War theme - see here: Great War books on-line from McMaster University, Ontario on Archive.org I'll let you know the next steps with Worcester soon. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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