alan figg Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 Hi all i have some details on CSM Arthur Fountain 15400 who was killed 27/9/16 serving with 17th Beds.I believe he was awarded the MM im struggling to find when and where any help or advice appreciated.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 London Gazette entry 1st Jan 1916 here : https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29422/supplement/38 The action for which it was awarded is usually about 2 months earlier. BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 3 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2016 Many Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 I've just had a look at his medal roll index cards and there is no mention of a MM. There is however mention of him being Mentioned in Dispatches which appears to be the London Gazette reference to which Billy refers. His medal entitlement is stated as the 14-15 star trio and he first served in France on 26/7/15. If you search his Battalions war diary you may be lucky and be able to identify the action which gained him his award after all there is a very short time between his arrival in the theatre and his MiD gazette entry. I had a check on FMP for his service record but they don't appear to have it. Hope this helps and good luck with your search Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 Curious this, the London Gazette entry is for a MID, but CWGC, and Soldiers Died in the Great War both say an MM. BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 Very odd. I wonder if the Thiepval memorial entry states MM after his name? Digger, it may be worth posting a look up in the appropriate section and see if somebody visiting could photograph the appropriate panel for you. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 3 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2016 Hi I have also found my man in the Edinburgh Supplement page 2032 14th Nov 1916 is it normal to be gazetted twice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 3 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2016 I have found Arthur Fountain MM listed on the Markyate ( Hertfordshire) War Memorial.Lived and enlisted Luton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 In a word - yes. Here is the same entry four days earlier in the London Gazette : https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29819/supplement/10922 These are the MM entries. When you get the page above open you will see in the top right hand corner some arrows a bit like this I< < > >I - if you hit the left hand one it takes you straight to the first page, where it confirms that it was for the MM. BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 I wonder why his MiC doesn't mention the MM. Perhaps the person who filled it in should have put MM instead of MiD. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 4 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2016 Thanks all, now know he was MID London Gazette 1st Jan 1916 and then MM 11th Nov London Gazette and gazetted again for the same MM 3 days later in the Edinburgh Supplement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 4 June , 2016 Share Posted 4 June , 2016 Certain awards in the London Gazette in the autumn of 1916 related to events that occurred in 1914, 1915 and early 1916 - these were effectively "back-dated" awards for the period when the Military Medal did not exist (it was instituted in March 1916). The Gazettes that seem to carry the most of these "old" MMs are 14-9-1916, 21-10-1916 and 11-11-1916 - thus it may be that the MiD and the MM refer to the same action with the award being added to the MiD rather than replacing it. My research on the Gazette issues for MMs was in reference to the Northamptons battalion in the same Brigade (54th). I would recommend Steve Fuller's Bedfordshire Regiment website: http://www.bedfordregiment.org.uk/index.html Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 4 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2016 HI been on steve fullers Bedfordshire Regiment website and found in the war diary Battalion Orders No. 200 Para 1482 his award of the MM for the action at Thiepval and the Schwaben redoubt 26th-28th Sept 1916.Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickLeeds Posted 5 June , 2016 Share Posted 5 June , 2016 I presume this is the same man. Biggleswade Chronicle 19 November 1915 Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 5 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 5 June , 2016 Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 5 June , 2016 Share Posted 5 June , 2016 The officer was Shirley Angus Egerton Hine. The other man appears to have been Private Arthur Strange. The incident is mentioned on this page: http://barronmaps.com/john-mccraes-flanders-fields-1921-published-william-e-rudge-illustrated-ernest-clegg-part-3/ Looking at Battalion Order 200, I can't see where para 1482 specifically states that those MMs are for the Schwaben Redoubt? All seem to appear in the same Gazette on 11 Nov 1916. The DCMs appearing in Battalion Order 193 (also undated in the Battalion Order) were certainly for Thiepval (per WO 391-5 at the NA) but I wouldn't automatically assume that the others in B.O. 200 are. The war diary itself lists the recommendations for awards relating to 26 to 28 September 1916: 1 VC, 3 DSOs, 3 MCs, 8 DCMs and 22 MMs. CSM Fountain does not appear on this list. The MMs on the list were Gazetted on 26-12-1916. It is my opinion that his MM is most likely to be for the retrieval of Private Strange's body on 20 September 1915. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 17 July , 2016 Share Posted 17 July , 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raster Scanning Posted 17 July , 2016 Share Posted 17 July , 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan figg Posted 17 July , 2016 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2016 Thank you Raster Scanning for sharing this information.Very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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