13th Siege Battery RGA

[peterhodgkinson]

I'm researching an officer killed at Ypres in September 1917. 9 days before his death he was attached to 13th Siege Battery.

This doesn't appear to have a war diary after 1915.

Artillery is beyond my normal range of expertise!

Can anyone help with whatever higher formation this was attached to so that I can track down a relevant diary?

Thanks

Peter

[petwes]

Peter

Hope I've got this right. 13 Siege Battery equipped with 9.2" Howitzers was with 84 HAG from 18th June 1917 to 5th October 1917. The war diary is WO95/396. On 16th September 84 HAG moved from Fifth to Second army. Sorry I haven't research this HAG so can't tell which Corps they were with.

Peter

[peterhodgkinson]

Many thanks.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The diary for 84 Brigade (Heavy Artillery Group) can be downloaded here for £3.45:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/5855c99b3ce14279b0c886033dcecf97

What information will be in it about 13 Siege Battery, and your officer of course I can't say.

Edit: 13 Siege Battery as you have probably found out do have a diary, but only from April to September 1915:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/144bf5f8794c4f829370d6a341579a23

[ororkep]

Unfortunately there is no mention of Capt Dinwiddy in 84 Bde WD if it is him you seek concerning the circumstances of his demise, other than 13 Sge were involved in operations re Polygon Wood. However, a very good portrait photo of him can be found on the IWM collections website.

Rgds Paul

[rflory]

According to the war diary of 17th Brigade, RGA he was Battery Captain of 208th Siege Battery, RGA when that battery joined 17th Brigade (HAG), RGA at Oosthove Farm on 26 June 1917. He must have joined 13th Siege Battery, RGA at some later date There is a photo of him in With a Poppy and a Prayer: Officers Died at Passchendaele 31st July to 10th November 1917 by Keith Perry that indicates he died of wounds while serving with 13th Siege Battery RGA on 27 Sept 1917.
The war diary of 84th Brigade, RGA for 26th September 1917 indicates that 13th Siege Battery RGA was at Dickiebusch preparing for an attack on Polygon Wood but 'could not get into action as road and railway were not ready.' There is no mention of Capt Dinwoody's wounding or death.

According to the war diary of 84th Brigade RGA 13th Siege Battery did not join that Brigade until 18 Jun 1917.

Regards, Dick Flory

[peterhodgkinson]

Ah ... I didn't bother to post the officer's name, but yes, it is Conrad Hugh Dinwiddy. He was gazetted Major on 20 June 1917, and ended his spell as commander of a siege battery on 16 September, apparently at his own request after being gassed. According to the information in De Ruvigny's, the battery he commanded was 6 inch howitzers, so could well have been the 208th which other info I now have tells me was 6-inch howitzers. He reverted to 2ic of a 9.2 inch battery in the days before his death. This must have been 13 Siege battery if the info above is correct.

Many thanks for the help.

[Guest thomas Morgan]

As Kildare Mick pointed out in a Post in 2007 17th Brigade R.G.A. was a mixed Brigade consisting of : 135. Heavy Battery.2/1. lancs heavy.

51st. Siege Batt.  248. Siege. Batt.  66.Siege.Batt.  13.Siege.Batt.  and on November 11th. 1918. ended up across the Border in Loupognie  and Genappe

in Belguim. .They were part of Gen .Byng's Third Army. In October 1918 they were involved in a Battle at Poix-du-Nord in France.

I don't know what Corps the were in or whether they were Deployed across all Corps.

[Rob Urwin]

On 28/05/2016 at 07:59, peterhodgkinson said:

Ah ... I didn't bother to post the officer's name, but yes, it is Conrad Hugh Dinwiddy. He was gazetted Major on 20 June 1917, and ended his spell as commander of a siege battery on 16 September, apparently at his own request after being gassed. According to the information in De Ruvigny's, the battery he commanded was 6 inch howitzers, so could well have been the 208th which other info I now have tells me was 6-inch howitzers. He reverted to 2ic of a 9.2 inch battery in the days before his death. This must have been 13 Siege battery if the info above is correct.

Many thanks for the help.

208th SB - My maternal Grandfather Thomas Ford was a gunner 180224 attached to this unit. It would be wonderful to see any pictures or information you or anyone else may have (as i have only one picture of him) . Tom like many joined at 15 and lied about his age. He was born in Nov 1899 but maintained till his death in 1937 that he was born in 1896. We know that he suffered a serious crushed foot injury from a gun having gone over it. He was buried alive along with a number of his unit and was the only one dug out in time so the story was told, and was gassed in one of the woods when cycling between batteries... this caused serious long term lung damage and eventually to his early death, as was diagnosed by doctors - we don't know what type of gas it was. Like most he didn't want to (or couldn't) talk about his experiences and so very little is known... my starting position was RGA/208-B from his war record. He never wore his medals, i've inherited them in their original box with the ribbons still folded and unattached. My uncle who handed the medals down to me shortly before he died in 2001 said that Thomas was entitled to another medal from his active service but i can't figure what this would be, I've got the standard Tom/Dick.

Most grateful for anyhelp that can be provided.

Regards

Rob

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 12/11/2018 at 19:12, Rob Urwin said:

208th SB - My maternal Grandfather Thomas Ford was a gunner 180224 attached to this unit.... my starting position was RGA/208-B from his war record.

 

I regret to have to tell you that this conclusion is incorrect.

The entry RGA/208B on his Medal Index Card, merely relates to which page of the actual RGA medal roll your grandfather's name will be found.

MIC

 

Of course, there may be other evidence somewhere that states where in the RGA he was employed, but this isn't it.

Also, it is possible (although it would be a massive coincidence) that he was actually in 208SB, although the odds are that he was in one of the other 400 odd Siege batteries, or in a Heavy Battery.

Sorry.

 

But all is not lost.

Which area was he from? There is a remote possibility that there might be an Absent Voters List for his area, that would name him, his address and show his number and Unit.

I presume there isn't a surviving service record?

Edited 13 November , 2018 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Rob Urwin]

On 13/11/2018 at 22:33, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

I regret to have to tell you that this conclusion is incorrect.

The entry RGA/208B on his Medal Index Card, merely relates to which page of the actual RGA medal roll your grandfather's name will be found.

MIC

 

Of course, there may be other evidence somewhere that states where in the RGA he was employed, but this isn't it.

Also, it is possible (although it would be a massive coincidence) that he was actually in 208SB, although the odds are that he was in one of the other 400 odd Siege batteries, or in a Heavy Battery.

Sorry.

 

But all is not lost.

Which area was he from? There is a remote possibility that there might be an Absent Voters List for his area, that would name him, his address and show his number and Unit.

I presume there isn't a surviving service record?

Thanks so much for responding and apoligies it's take so long to reply.

Thomas Ford was from Birmingham and lived with his parents. We've not checked the Absent Voters List but will do so now, I presume we can get to it via Ancestry.com. It seems his Service Record is lost which is a shame. Are there any other ways we could find out his Unit ?

[kevinrowlinson]

On 12/11/2018 at 19:12, Rob Urwin said:

Tom like many joined at 15 and lied about his age. He was born in Nov 1899

 

Can you confirm his number from the rim of his medals? The number, 180224, would indicate someone being conscripted/mobilised at the start of September 1917 and reporting to No.2 Depot, Fort Brockhurst, Gosport. By the time he was posted overseas he was probably 18 at least. Also if he was living at Birmingham I would expect him to have reported to No.3 Depot which was the one that covered that enlistment area.

 

Kevin

Edited 30 November , 2018 by kevinrowlinson

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

3 hours ago, Rob Urwin said:

We've not checked the Absent Voters List but will do so now, I presume we can get to it via Ancestry.com

 

Well, not many survive, and there aren't that many on Ancestry.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=61320

 

There are some for Birmingham, but on a quick scan, I can only see Aston, Duddeston & Erdington.

Some may exist somewhere? Maybe? In local council archives, but they are few and far between.

 

[Rob Urwin]

21 hours ago, kevinrowlinson said:

 

Can you confirm his number from the rim of his medals? The number, 180224, would indicate someone being conscripted/mobilised at the start of September 1917 and reporting to No.2 Depot, Fort Brockhurst, Gosport. By the time he was posted overseas he was probably 18 at least. Also if he was living at Birmingham I would expect him to have reported to No.3 Depot which was the one that covered that enlistment area.

 

Kevin

Thanks Kevin,

The medals (2x Tom and Dick) are both imprinted with 180224 GNR T.FORD R.A.

His real birthday was 4thMay 1899 but we can see from the records he first enlisted in the Territorial Army RFA 3rd South Midland Brigade no 1249 and then was discharged December 1914. He then enrolled again with the R.A. 1915 and was again discharge for being underage March 1916. Finally, we think he must have re-enrolled on his 18th Birthday 4th May 1917 and presume that's how he ended up in the RGA. We understand he had serious foot injury in 1918 from a crush injury and presume this lead to discharge (and presumably the Silver Medal which was never claimed). Any details or method to find details greatly appreciated.

Best regards

Rob

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

3 hours ago, Rob Urwin said:

we can see from the records he first enlisted in the Territorial Army RFA 3rd South Midland Brigade no 1249 and then was discharged December 1914. He then enrolled again with the R.A. 1915 and was again discharge for being underage March 1916. Finally, we think he must have re-enrolled on his 18th Birthday 4th May 1917 and presume that's how he ended up in the RGA

 Err...... What records?

[Rob Urwin]

On 29/11/2018 at 20:23, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 

Well, not many survive, and there aren't that many on Ancestry.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=61320

 

There are some for Birmingham, but on a quick scan, I can only see Aston, Duddeston & Erdington.

Some may exist somewhere? Maybe? In local council archives, but they are few and far between.

 

 

3 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

 Err...... What records?

We found the details of Thomas Ford's enrollment (and twice getting discharged for "mis-information" i.e. his age being young) on the site Findmypast.co.uk

Attached is one of the many in the miltary section when we enter his name and regiment number 180224... however this said we can't find any documents to show his enrollment in 1917 in the RGA or where he was injuried or discharged. It would be lovely to discover which Battery he was attached to etc so we can shine light on the mystery.

Much appreciate your time and help with this.

Kind regards

Rob

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

OK thanks.

Once again, material appears in FMP that seems absent from or invisible to Ancestry.