4 NZ Soldiers - assistance needed to decipher some info on military re

[Robyn FitzGerald]

Hi. This is my first post, so please be gentle with me!

I have four NZ soldiers I need a little help with, please. I have (laboriously) worked out most of the information contained in their military records (which countries they served in, what ships they embarked on, when they were promoted/wounded, when they marched into camp (I can't always tell which camp it is, though, or where exactly that camp was located), what punishments they received etc.) but I haven't worked out much so far in the way of what battles they might have been involved in and this is the main aspect I'm wanting some help with, or to be pointed in the right direction. I'm not familiar with military lingo or anything, so have found this to be a very confusing and difficult exercise. Please let me know if I should supply any further information.

1) Dallas Bertrand Campbell (NZEF #1/568 Samoa (NZ) Expeditionary Force), AND (NZEF #12/2970, Auckland Infantry Battalion, 7th Reinforcements).

http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE24349012

The 100th anniversary is coming up on 13th June 2016 of my great-uncle's death in Armentieres, France. He was accidentally killed at Bomb School on 13/6/1916. We are having a family memorial day to commemorate his death, and as part of that, I am writing up the military stories of Dallas and his two older brothers and also of my grandfather, who was brother-in-law to the 3 Campbell brothers.

From a letter Dallas wrote home, I know that he first went into the trenches in France on 13/5/1916. Where/what battle would this have been? He was killed at Bomb School exactly one month later, when a bomb was accidentally detonated. He is buried at Cite Bonjean Cemetery alongside the other 2 men who died in the same accident as he did. I've been able to work out their names as well as the name of one of five other men who were injured in the accident (that poor fellow died in another incident 2 or 3 weeks later).

2) Harold William Campbell (NZEF #12/3577, 9th Reinforcements, Auckland Infantry Battalion).

http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE12317851

He was an "observer" in the trenches in France on 27/5/1916 (2nd Brigade). What would being an observer entail? From a letter, I know he was at a rest camp on 27/5/1916 after having been in the trenches beforehand. Where would he have been fighting at that time? Harold must have been wounded at the Battle of Messines, France on 7/6/1917, but I want to know where he was before that.

3) Thomas Moore Campbell (NZEF #33151, 20th Reinforcements, NZ Engineers, Sapper)

http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE17211196

From the Casualty Form - Active Service (Image 11), he was detached on 8/2/1918 [this should have read "12/2/1918", not 8/2/1918, sorry. It's what happened on 12/2/1918 that I can't work out] to somewhere (in France) that I can't decipher. Any ideas?

He is detached to and marches into several camps "in the field" between 10/12/1917 and 15/10/1918 but I don't know if or where he was involved in any actual fighting (he wasn't as good at writing home as his brothers were!). Any ideas?

4) Frederick Murray Hannaford (NZEF #56434, 29th Reinforcements, NZ Rifle Brigade)

http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE13529748

He was wounded on 15/11/1917 in the field at Rouen (1st Battalion 3rd NZRB, D Company). Would this have been any particular battle?

On 27/3/1918 he was wounded in France again (possibly still in Rouen?), in the face. Any particular battle? Please see Image 3 of his military record. I can't work out exactly what they're saying about his wounds. It says wounded in the face and then it says something else - bruised? buried? burned? See also Image 6 & Image 15 (see 1/4/1918 entry also) about the same wound. Any ideas what the extent of his wounds were?

See Image 16 - what does the event on 29/1/1919 say? And where is it he was taken on strength at on 16/6/1919? And what happened on 28/7/1919?

I think that's all of my questions. I wonder if I should have split this up into 4 different topics? I would appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks,

Robyn

[jacksdad]

Hi Robyn

Dallas was with the 1st Auckland Battalion (1/Auckland)

here are the trenches that they first occupied on the 13/5/1916 at Armentieres. they were simply holding the trenches in this quiet stretch around Armentieres.

they entered the trenches down Central Ave trench and held the trenches here till the 21/05/16 when the 1/Otago Battalion relieved them.

they came back and relieved 1/Otago in these trenches and the 29/05/16 till the 09/06/1916 when 1/Canterbury relieved them.

I guess that they trotted off to training then.

I have a copy of one of the 1/Auckland guys who was in these trenches at that time and gives a brief write up of what it was like.

if your interested

Cheers Roger

[TEW]

You certainly have done far more than most first time posters.

I think where the record shows reinforcements that is not the unit they eventually served with

Taking No. 1 for the moment. His CWGC record says he died with 1st Auckland Battalion. Archway have the battalion diaries for the 1st AIB 1914-1919. Not available online. Originals in Wellington.

The AWM.go.au site has some NZ diaries which are online but you'll have to check coverage of Archway and AWM.

These will give day by day accounts of where they were.

No. 2 H W Campbell. Image 4 of his record says he was with 1st Bn. Auckland Regt, 5/4/16 - 6/7/17, same diary for Dallas should cover him.

No. 4 His Archway diary may be here. Can't make out the word either, it says wound face severe ??????? Don't think it's burned as there's a dot over an I in both examples, perhaps bruised.

No.3 Marched into camp 8/2/18 - Nom Roll, just means he was on a nominal roll of men that Marched into camp. But sheet 4 says attached NZ divisional wing 22/corps RE on the same date.

TEW

[jacksdad]

Harold started with 1/Auckland but transferred (by landing in France) to 2/Auckland battalion which was part of 2nd NZ Infantry Brigade.

Dallas was with 1/Auckland Battalion which was part of 1st NZI Brigade

Harold was in the trenches directly adjacent to Dallas.

2/Auckland took over the trenches at l'Epinette on 14/05/16 relieved by 1/Rifles on 22/05/16 and then returned to the same trenches on 01/06/16 till 1/Otago relieved them on 07/06/16.

these are those first trenches.

2/Auckland took over the front line trenches from 74 -77.

[jacksdad]

As far as working out where else Harold was.

The Auckland regimental history is one of the few that has a list of all its locations through the war in appendix B

there is a hard copy of the book in the Auckland central Library.

or google 'Auckland regiment NZETC' and it is free on line.

In short he was at Armentieres then First battle would be The Somme 15 Sept - 3 Oct 1916 captured village Flers, then back to the trenches at Armentieres Then to Ploegstreet Wood (across border in Belgium) and then Messines.

[jacksdad]

sorry this is a better map showing trenches 74 -77

[jacksdad]

Thomas is a harder one.

He goes into the field Dec 1917 with the 4/NZIB (4th NZ Infantry Brigade) this Brigade is disbanded in January (I think or there about) any way with the 4th Field Company (15/12/17) That the Field Engineers and he is a Sapper (Private).The 4/NZIB were broken up and made in to the 3rd Entrenching Battalion in 1918 and basically I am not to hot on these guys.

They are basically lent out to other British regiments as a labour squad and used as reinforcements to the NZ Division.

I know that they fought a very gallant battle during the German Spring offensive and won a number of awards during this near Mt Kemmel between Messines and Ypres in March or there about.

I have some stuff on them but would need to research them up to get a better idea.

[jacksdad]

Now Fred

he is with 1/Rifles Battalion, 3/NZ rifle Brigade.

he is hospitalised at Rouen but wounded at Polygon Wood (google earth Buttes New British cemetery to get location)

on the 15th November when he was wounded 1/Rifles had just gone into the front line from the support trenches at Clapham Junction.

he had only just turned up, the week before so it was bad luck.

He is off to hospital and re-joins the Battalion on 19/03/1918. that is just before the proverbial hits the fan and the NZ division is rushed into action at Mailly Maillet (google earth Sucrerie Military Cem to get location down to Knightsbridge Cemetery).

The NZ division was tasked with stopping the rampant German advance (Spring offensive) here and on the 26 & 27th March the New Zealanders advanced along this ridge line and counter attacked the Germans coming up the valley where the New Foundland park is.

Fred's 1/Rifles were at the south end of the NZ Division at Knightsbridge cemetery above the New Foundland park and well as you see... he turns up again and is immediately wounded again GSW face (gun shot wound to face) and looks like burned as well - anyway that's the end of his war. two weeks of hell, two years apart, interrupted by two long hospital spells.

[jacksdad]

I will dig it out over the weekend and photocopy at work.

I have a good diary entry that from 1918 when the NZ Division charged the Germans at Mailly Mailet from a guy involved in the attack.

I have a diary or letters from a guy in the entrenching battalion which may relate to Thomas

and first hand accounts of the Somme which may help you with Harold

It will be to big to post clearly.

I would be interested in the letters you mention as well.

I work in Epsom so maybe we can met at café in Manukau rd next week.

Cheers Roger

[jacksdad]

4) Frederick Murray Hannaford (NZEF #56434, 29th Reinforcements, NZ Rifle Brigade)

http://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE13529748

He was wounded on 15/11/1917 in the field at Rouen (1st Battalion 3rd NZRB, D Company). Would this have been any particular battle?

On 27/3/1918 he was wounded in France again (possibly still in Rouen?), in the face. Any particular battle? Please see Image 3 of his military record. I can't work out exactly what they're saying about his wounds. It says wounded in the face and then it says something else - bruised? buried? burned? See also Image 6 & Image 15 (see 1/4/1918 entry also) about the same wound. Any ideas what the extent of his wounds were?

See Image 16 - what does the event on 29/1/1919 say? And where is it he was taken on strength at on 16/6/1919? And what happened on 28/7/1919?

29/01/1919 = something something ending with Brocton - Brocton was one of the main hospitals for NZ wounded in ww1. it is probably recording something to do with his progress to recovery, looks like he is being graded along some lines to be moved out of hospital

16/06/1919 = C P D it is probably a hospital term or something meaning he is fit for discharge maybe?

28/07/1919 = same sort a abbreviations to do with his discharge and health. you maybe able to get an answer from someone on this forum if youpost a question specific to that.

[Fattyowls]

Robyn,

I can't add any information to what Rodger has come up with but I do know some of the locations. I research a Kiwi amateur football team from before the war in Auckland and Rodger has helped me more than once in the past and I am very grateful to him too. I've got a Campbell too amongst the former players, and some of them may have been in the same battalions as your four.

What I have got is a photo of the ground that Roger describes in relation to Fred Hannaford in March 1918. I've split it into two to get as much detail as possible. The photo was taken from Mill Road running up to the Ulster Memorial Tower just above Hamel and St Pierre Divion looking back across the valley to the Newfoundland Memorial Park. This is the line of dark trees on the right horizon in the first one. I think Knightsbridge Cemetery is on the horizon just right of centre below the electricity pylon.

This one is to the right of the one above and has the trees of the Newfoundland Park on the left and the village of Beaumont-Hamel on the far right. The Germans were coming from the right and the New Zealand boys from the left. The area was part of the front line on July 1st 1916 so would have been devastated in March 1918. Incidentally the dark clump of trees just below the horizon right of centre is the Hawthorn ridge craters created by the mine explosion that was filmed by Geoffrey Malins on 1st July, and which will be shown again and again on TV as we approach the centenary.

I'll see if I have any others that might illustrate Rodgers finds

Pete.

[Robyn FitzGerald]

I'll see if I have any others that might illustrate Rodgers finds

Pete.

Thanks very much, Pete. I appreciate your help and interest.

Robyn

[Robyn FitzGerald]

I will dig it out over the weekend and photocopy at work.

I work in Epsom so maybe we can met at café in Manukau rd next week.

Cheers Roger

Hi Roger. Next week in Manukau Rd could work for me. I have transcribed all of the letters that we have. Most are from Dallas. His letters were probably cherished more because he was the only one of the family who didn't return from the war.

I really appreciate all the trouble that you've gone to in answering my queries.

Robyn

Now Fred

he is with 1/Rifles Battalion, 3/NZ rifle Brigade.

he is hospitalised at Rouen but wounded at Polygon Wood (google earth Buttes New British cemetery to get location)

on the 15th November when he was wounded 1/Rifles had just gone into the front line from the support trenches at Clapham Junction.

he had only just turned up, the week before so it was bad luck.

He is off to hospital and re-joins the Battalion on 19/03/1918. that is just before the proverbial hits the fan and the NZ division is rushed into action at Mailly Maillet (google earth Sucrerie Military Cem to get location down to Knightsbridge Cemetery).

The NZ division was tasked with stopping the rampant German advance (Spring offensive) here and on the 26 & 27th March the New Zealanders advanced along this ridge line and counter attacked the Germans coming up the valley where the New Foundland park is.

Fred's 1/Rifles were at the south end of the NZ Division at Knightsbridge cemetery above the New Foundland park and well as you see... he turns up again and is immediately wounded again GSW face (gun shot wound to face) and looks like burned as well - anyway that's the end of his war. two weeks of hell, two years apart, interrupted by two long hospital spells.

Thanks, Roger. That is so useful, and will add more interest and clarity to the story I am writing about him. My 85 year old mother will be so interested to know about this as her father never spoke about the war. Interestingly, she doesn't think he had any lasting scars or anything on his face; she didn't even know that he'd been shot in the face.

Thanks so much for all of your help,

Robyn

[Robyn FitzGerald]

You certainly have done far more than most first time posters.

I think where the record shows reinforcements that is not the unit they eventually served with

Taking No. 1 for the moment. His CWGC record says he died with 1st Auckland Battalion. Archway have the battalion diaries for the 1st AIB 1914-1919. Not available online. Originals in Wellington.

The AWM.go.au site has some NZ diaries which are online but you'll have to check coverage of Archway and AWM.

These will give day by day accounts of where they were.

No. 2 H W Campbell. Image 4 of his record says he was with 1st Bn. Auckland Regt, 5/4/16 - 6/7/17, same diary for Dallas should cover him.

No. 4 His Archway diary may be here. Can't make out the word either, it says wound face severe ??????? Don't think it's burned as there's a dot over an I in both examples, perhaps bruised.

No.3 Marched into camp 8/2/18 - Nom Roll, just means he was on a nominal roll of men that Marched into camp. But sheet 4 says attached NZ divisional wing 22/corps RE on the same date.

TEW

Yes, it seemed to me that the Reinforcements number seemed to be the numbering system used for when the different military groups left NZ. I didn't know whether it was important to quote that number or not.

Sorry, it was actually where he was detached to on 12/2/1918 that I was supposed to be querying, not 8/2/1918. Any ideas for 12/2/1918?

Thanks for the info about the diaries. I will check those out.

Robyn

[TEW]

Sticking with No. 4 Frederick Murray Hannaford.

He has 2 non-military records with Archway. His 1959 probate record viewable in Auckland and a Hamilton Land Sales record and Land Valuation for same, also in Auckland.

He is listed on a NZ casualty list which doesn't add much info other than a list number of 825/2. Same resource should have the other men. It's a matter of finding the right list from this lot!

I did think it said bruised on image 3 but image 15 looks more like burned.

Image 6

27/3/18 Wounded

27/3/18 Admitted. Looks like 824 General Hospital, could be 24 GH? see 1/4/18

27/3/18 Admitted. Looks like 86 Stationary Hospital, could be 6 SH?

1/4/18 24th General Hospital, embarked HS Newhaven

24th GH may be this one at TNA, unlikely to mention him by name. Ditto for 6 Stationary Hospital and for the Newhaven

Ah!, image 15 confirms 24 GH and 6 SH

Diaries may just tie things together, generally speaking, he'll just be one of a number of admitted.

1/4/18 Admitted City of London General Hospital Clapton

11/4/18 Admitted No. 1 NZ General Hospital Bathhurst

19/6/18 Attached NZ Convalescent Hospital Hornchurch

Same Hospitals as abbreviated in image 3.

More on Codford and Sling

Image 16

29/1/19. Looks like No/1 A group details ????? Brocton. Note, 'A group' is also mentioned 8/1/19 at Sling in image 4.

16/6/19 Taken on light? CPD?

28/7/19 ??/8 OPD y CPD

Found this but not sure that it applies, other than it's medical!

Operating department practitioners (ODPs) are a type of health care provider involved with the ... arranging drugs, equipment, and emergency airway apparatus. Transfer teams usually consist of an anaesthetist,

And a list for CPD here

Whatever OPD and CPD are, it only applied for the period before he left for home, 'something something Depot, 'something posting depot' perhaps seems more likely. Surprised that Torquay Discharge Depot is not involved.

TEW

[Robyn FitzGerald]

Dallas was with the 1st Auckland Battalion (1/Auckland)

I have a copy of one of the 1/Auckland guys who was in these trenches at that time and gives a brief write up of what it was like.

if your interested

Yes please, Roger, I am interested in this account that you mention. Thanks for the diagrams of the trenches, too; very interesting. It makes sense that Dallas and Harold's trenches were adjacent because one of their letters said that they were in the trenches together and so were also resting together.

Thanks so much for your help.

Robyn

[Robyn FitzGerald]

In case you're wondering, I finally worked out how to reply to your posts properly so I've deleted my initial replies and reposted them correctly and so now they might be in the wrong order. Sorry about that, but at least I'm learning!

[Robyn FitzGerald]

they entered the trenches down Central Ave trench and held the trenches here till the 21/05/16 when the 1/Otago Battalion relieved them.

they came back and relieved 1/Otago in these trenches and the 29/05/16 till the 09/06/1916 when 1/Canterbury relieved them.

I guess that they trotted off to training then.

These details all tie up beautifully with the timeline I'd written up about his movements from his letters and military records, except that I'd calculated that he would have left the trenches for rest camp on 6/6/1916 rather than 9/6/1916. Thanks so much.

[Robyn FitzGerald]

Harold started with 1/Auckland but transferred (by landing in France) to 2/Auckland battalion which was part of 2nd NZ Infantry Brigade.

Dallas was with 1/Auckland Battalion which was part of 1st NZI Brigade

Harold was in the trenches directly adjacent to Dallas.

2/Auckland took over the trenches at l'Epinette on 14/05/16 relieved by 1/Rifles on 22/05/16 and then returned to the same trenches on 01/06/16 till 1/Otago relieved them on 07/06/16.

So are you saying, then, that Dallas's trenches (1/Auckland - 13/5/16 to 9/6/16) were also at L'Epinette? Do you have his trench numbers, by any chance? (you said Harold's (2/Auckland - 14/5/16 to 7/6/16) trench numbers were 74-77).

Thanks, Roger.

Robyn

[TEW]

Robyn

Re, Frederick

I have the 3 diaries for hospitals and the Newhaven I mentioned in post#3.

No names mentioned but if you want the relevant pages let me know. Gives an idea of what the hospitals were doing that day and number of men boarded onto Newhaven

TEW

[Robyn FitzGerald]

I have the 3 diaries for hospitals and the Newhaven I mentioned in post#3.

No names mentioned but if you want the relevant pages let me know. Gives an idea of what the hospitals were doing that day and number of men boarded onto Newhaven

Yes, please, that would be awesome, if it's not too much trouble.

Thanks,

Robyn

[Robyn FitzGerald]

I think I've got a little further with Fred, soldier #4, Image 16, in chronological order, from 8th Jan 1919 onwards only as I think I had already worked out the rest correctly:

8/1/1919 Promoted Sergeant & appointed Temporary Warrant Officer 1st Class & appointed 3rd Grade Instructor

28/1/1919 Marches out to Sling (Education/educational)

29/1/1919 Marched In "A" Group Details Sling ex Brocton (he had been promoted to Sergeant, A Group NZ Expeditionary Force, Sling on 8/1/1919.

30/1/1919 Struck off Strength of Unit & Taken on Establishment of Education Dept.

16/6/1919 Taken on Strength SOMETHING (must have been moved to some other unit)

28/7/1919 SOMETHING (embark?) OPDYCPD - I still don't know what this means. As TEW said on another post, maybe something about Command Depot or Posting Depot. Anyway, I guess he left Sling approx. 16/6/1919 and went somewhere else awaiting his return to NZ. Does that make sense?

8/8/1919 Embarked on the SS Tainui at Plymouth, for New Zealand.

What do you think?

I wonder what he was teaching at Sling Camp. He was a blacksmith in NZ before and after the war. I wonder if he was involved in making the Bulford Kiwi?

Out of interest, I noticed in his "NZ Soldiers Pay Book for use on active service" book that I have a copy of that he'd received a couple of promotions that weren't recorded on his military records anywhere - that to Lance Corporal on 1/4/1918 and to Lieutenant Sergeant on 25/2/1919. Is that normal, for something like promotions to be omitted from his military record?

[Robyn FitzGerald]

Another query, sorry.

For soldier #4, Fred, please see Image 3. On the cable date of 6/4/1918, what are the 2 initials before "U.K." He was wounded in the face and admitted to 2 hospitals on 27th March, and he embarks on a hospital ship on 1st April, so what could have been happening between 29th March and 3rd April 1918?

And see 8/4/1918. Wound face d/w admitted hospital March 27 1918. What does d/w mean? It can't be "died of wounds" because he didn't die.

Thanks.

Robyn

[TEW]

Robyn

16/6/1919 Taken on Strength SOMETHING (must have been moved to some other unit)

Still a bit of guess on my part but I thought this was 'Taken on Light CPD'. Which made me thing the OPDYCPD line is OPD & CPD, the y being an &? Looking again, it might be strength which makes more sense.

Note on image 15, the Taken on light? CPD and ??/8 OPD Y CPD lines are annotated in the Authority column as B213 OPD and B213 OPD, so OPD is the authority for that order/instruction. Unless another suggestion comes up I could say 'Officer Posting Depot'? but it is a guess, perhaps CPD is then 'Commander Posting Depot'

I saw the a/h and d/w entries but can't help with those either.

I wonder what he was teaching at Sling Camp

I think he was learning not teaching. It seems there were classes on Wool Classing and Motor Mechanics, and maybe more academic subjects post-war.

For soldier #4, Fred, please see Image 3. On the cable date of 6/4/1918, what are the 2 initials before "U.K.

I think it says 'AR', but can't offer a meaning. I think the Cable Dates are dates the information was received and entered into his record and not the date the event happened. So, the 'AR UK March 29th to April 3rd' doesn't make a lot of sense as that spans his hospital treatment in France, his embarkation to UK and being admitted into City of London Hospital.

As far as I'm aware, there was a huge backlog of troops returning to NZ, various discharge depots were set up just to occupy the men while waiting for available shipping. There is no mention of Torquay (not far from Plymouth) but this had several houses and took over several farms which taught anything from potato growing, ploughing techiques, chicken rearing, fruit tree pruning, animal husbandry etc.

I have seen Torquay mentioned as the discharge depot in other NZ records so would expect to see it in Fred's if he was there.

As for the additional 'promotions'. Technically, being made a Lance Corporal was not a promotion it was an appointment or position. A Lance Corporal holds the rank of Private but may receive additional pay which is why it's in his pay book but not in record. Lieutenant Sergeant is a new one to me.

TEW

[Robyn FitzGerald]

Robyn

I wonder what he was teaching at Sling Camp

I think he was learning not teaching. It seems there were classes on Wool Classing and Motor Mechanics, and maybe more academic subjects post-war.

Because he had been promoted to Sergeant & been appointed to "3rd Grade Instr" and "T/WOI" on 8/1/1919, and he was attached to the Education Dept., I took that to mean that he was an instructor.

As for the additional 'promotions'. Technically, being made a Lance Corporal was not a promotion it was an appointment or position. A Lance Corporal holds the rank of Private but may receive additional pay which is why it's in his pay book but not in record. Lieutenant Sergeant is a new one to me.

He was promoted to sergeant on 8/1/1919 per his military file. The pay book says "Promotion to Lt Sgt 25/2/1919" and I had assumed it meant lieutenant sergeant. What does it mean then? Maybe I transcribed it incorrectly years ago, but I don't have the original with me to check it now.

TEW