seaforths Posted 21 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2016 Well, that seems to have thrown a cat among the pigeons. I don't think it would help any by posting the other image. It is a view from a different angle. The officers can only be seen from the back and in the position of saluting as a volley is fired - or at least they are poised to do that and the Austrian is out of camera shot (and that is why I used the image I did). The men are further away as is Oberst. v Derschau. Jan, I was also wondering between an 'I' and an 'S' and went for the 'I' trying to make sense of the rest. The only other thing I could think is that it is a cryptic clue as to the men firing the volley - guard of honour? But they are too far away to be seen with any clarity. Thank you for the information maps/images. The locations were certainly a huge distance apart. Is it possible that a former officer(s) with 9 Grenadier Regt. was/were invited to attend the ceremony and they took Staff Sgt. Opitz with them? That might be very difficult to verify. As for it being two different men involved in the album; the only thing I can think to do is to try to carefully try to prize a couple of the images back and see if the handwriting is the same on both. I have a mini tri-pod so I could set up my camera and try to experiment. That the person has the camera and is not in any of the images themself doesn't help. Judging by the information so far on the dedication parade (and many thanks for that everyone) there is now a sizeable gap in the timeline. The next images start around spring 1917 judging by the condition of the trees etc. These are the photographs taken in southwest Baden. I think I do see him in these images - as an officer. Maybe I will be proved incorrect in this too I was looking at the image posted by The Prussian (post 29) because again, in these images, there is a mix of officers with different insignia and cuffs. I had thought that some of them were Guard Officers and looking at the diagram posted earlier, I still think that is the case. If he was promoted between the spring of 1916 and 1917 would he have been on a training course to get his commission? This might account for such a large time gap between the images... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 21 May , 2016 Share Posted 21 May , 2016 I´ll have look tomorrow. Now I just came back from my local lake,got drunk (a little bit... ).. Come on you Irons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Sober again... Maybe he served with the highes command at the east front? The Gruppe Scholtz belonged to the Heeresgruppe Hindenburg, the Südarmee to the Heeresgruppe Böhm-Ermolli. All those groups stood under command of the O.B. Ost (Oberbefehlshaber Ost - high command east). Maybe he belonged to an administration and "travelled" between the different army groups? Just a guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Hahahaha - good photo! I hope you did not feel too shabby this morning. If you did, you have my sympathy - even if it was self inflicted! The problem is that he seems to have been static at Smelina 25th November 1915 to 2nd March 1916 (see Post 32). Is it possible his unit moved south in the spring of 1916 and he was part of an advance party that actually went in February to have a look at what they would be taking over? Then it is possible he would have seen the parade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Well, I had a little headache, but after a good breakfast it has got better... I don´t think he served with a unit. Both divisions (37.ID and 77.RD) stayed in the north until end of 1916. IF he really was in the north AND in the south, he might have been served with the High Command. I don´t have a better idea or another reason why he should travel 1000km. Probably not just for the monument. By the way. #38. Do I see a 61 on the cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Well, I had a little headache, but after a good breakfast it has got better... I don´t think he served with a unit. Both divisions (37.ID and 77.RD) stayed in the north until end of 1916. IF he really was in the north AND in the south, he might have been served with the High Command. I don´t have a better idea or another reason why he should travel 1000km. Probably not just for the monument. By the way. #38. Do I see a 61 on the cross? Yes, that's what I see too. I have tried very hard to do a lot of tinkering with that image but it doesn't really get any better. I don't know if there is a number before the '6'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 A real hard nut... Note that the soldier in #38 wears guard-Litzen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Braids or commonly referred to as lace - yes. Ken had a stab at the caption in post 39 but I can't find anything that might be possibly be a match for that location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 No, I didn´t find that village. The problem is, the original russian names were different to the translations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 I will switch to a PC. I have one more image to post and then my intention was to try and summarise what has come out so far and add some tags. After that, I will try to see if I can lift the edges of any images. For some it will not be possible because the glue has gone right to the edge of the image. I do wonder if it has been an excessive amount of glue that has caused some of the damage to the images as it has gone through the paper. It also depends on where the writing is on the back. If it is close to the edge - good. If it is not close to the edge a much trickier thing to do that might not be achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Be carefully, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 This image appears directly following the last parade photographs I posted and before the 1917 images start (again) so not sure where this belongs in the time line of things. Vizefeldwebel Opitz - is that him in the front rank nearest the camera with his pouch tucked into his tunic?? Here is the caption: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 "Kompagnie angetreten" Zur ??? 2 Offiziere, 14 Unteroffiziere, 197 Mann "Company lined-up" To ??? 2 officers, 14 NCOs, 197 men If the man is Opitz, it´s hard to say. The pouch is the book, company-sergeants always stuck in the tunic in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Trees and shrubs seem to have plenty of leaves etc...His winter months seem to have been spent at Smelina so possibly not there. It is definitely not related to the parade images that came before it because as already said - February 1916 (and there are slight traces of snow on the ground in one of those images). I'm having a play with trying to get some decent close-up images of him at the moment. There will be no captions for them as they do not exist... Edit: actually they do exist but Papa and Pferde captions - so the obvious and nothing more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 "Zur Stelle" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 May , 2016 Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Right. That's it! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 Okay here: with this man in the background of the same photo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 And another horse photograph... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 22 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2016 This is about as sharp as I can get it for kokade etc. but two medal ribbons?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 23 May , 2016 Share Posted 23 May , 2016 That´s hard to say... The colours of the second ribbon seem to be green/white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 23 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2016 That´s hard to say... The colours of the second reibbon seem to be green/white. Would that be a Sachsen ribbon?? I've managed to find my scalpel and blades and had a controlled attempt at getting to the back of the image of the NCOs but the result is the same. No matter how careful I am, the card is firmly stuck and I end up taking the backing card with the image. No harm done, I can paste back down but I realise that the only option would be to take a damp cotton bud under and carefully, bit by bit, gently try to dissolve the glue. The danger in that is that it will cause any writing to run and be illegible - so I'm not even going to attempt it. Looking through the 'Papa' photos again, there seems to be one of him more side on to the camera - not profile exactly but think it is him on the end of that Company photo. Will have a play around tomorrow with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 24 May , 2016 Share Posted 24 May , 2016 With your permission I could show the photo with the ribbon in our medal forum. http://h2385226.stratoserver.net/wbb3/index.php?page=Portal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 May , 2016 Share Posted 24 May , 2016 Would that be a Sachsen ribbon?? ... take a damp cotton bud under and carefully, bit by bit, gently try to dissolve the glue. ... If Green and white, sounds like it. What are you using for this, acetone? As in nail varnish remover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 24 May , 2016 Share Posted 24 May , 2016 I wouldn't bet on any color combination. It can be almost any Iron Cross 2nd Class equivalent (Württemberg, Baden, Hessen, ...). The cockade on the cap also doesn't seem to be Saxon. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaforths Posted 24 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2016 With your permission I could show the photo with the ribbon in our medal forum. http://h2385226.stratoserver.net/wbb3/index.php?page=Portal Yes - if it helps. Thank you. It may bring us a litle closer to him. If Green and white, sounds like it. What are you using for this, acetone? As in nail varnish remover? No - I didn't try it but if I had, I would have dampened it with just water. Many glues will give with water. Book binders often use water to remove labels from old books. I found this out when I got some old books re-bound and wanted to retain the original labels. Of course it was a risk that the ink might also run. They remove the old binding and put it in a bath of water and wait until the labels float to the top! In the case of my books - it was a success. Not something I could do though. The one image I was able to lift a little and get a peek at earlier looked as though it had been written in pencil. Graphite, like a non-colour fast ink, is water soluble. That's not to say pencil was used on all of them but I thought the whole thing too risky to attempt, especially given the amount of glue involved. I wouldn't bet on any color combination. It can be almost any Iron Cross 2nd Class equivalent (Württemberg, Baden, Hessen, ...). The cockade on the cap also doesn't seem to be Saxon. Jan I totally agree. Even if you take some images from the web where they sell old German uniforms and they have photographed it in colour to sell it etc. and you then turn that colour image into black and white - the effects are very strange and the results are unexpected. I did not think it to be white because when you look at it as it is next to the white, it isn't the same. I then thought perhaps yellow not white. Yellow is a troublesome colour. In the tartans for example, most of the time it doesn't show up at all even against the darker backgrounds of the other colours but then that is a thinner line of thread...but this is medal ribbon is not such a thin like like that so perhaps it could be so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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