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bomb carrier


mtaylor
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The same orders for the 12th SWB raid in July 1916 refers to one NCO having a bomb bucket but also having a 'bomb carrier'. Elsewhere in the same document there are references to men using the pocketed vest to carry bombs so is a 'bomb carrier' a different piece of kit?

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The same orders for the 12th SWB raid in July 1916 refers to one NCO having a bomb bucket but also having a 'bomb carrier'. Elsewhere in the same document there are references to men using the pocketed vest to carry bombs so is a 'bomb carrier' a different piece of kit?

There were both canvas vest with pockets for carrying the Mills grenades, and also a canvas buckets which was used for carrying Mills grenades to the front line.

If you look up a Forum Thread ' WW1 Grenades both British and Enemy ' and then enter ' canvas ' in that Thread's search box, it will bring up information and photographs of both the vest and the bucket.

Regards,

LF

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An extremely interesting photograph of a Squad of Bombers, with some wearing the 10 pocket Mills Bomb/Grenade carrying waistcoats, also note the rarely photographed canvas buckets used to carry supplies of 24 Mills Bombs into action.

LF

Stephen J. Chambers - Uniforms and Equipment of the British Army in WW1.

post-63666-0-63375800-1462970922_thumb.j

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Thanks LF - the bombing squad pic is excellent. But was there another piece of equipment called a 'bomb carrier'?

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Thanks LF - the bombing squad pic is excellent. But was there another piece of equipment called a 'bomb carrier'?

The only methods of carrying Mills Bombs/Grenades I am aware of, were the portable wooden storage boxes which carried 12 Mills Bombs/Grenades, the Carrying Vests and the canvas buckets, and all three were used at the Front.

The description ' Bomb Carrier ' could be applied to any or all of these three carrying methods.

Again, examples of the portable storage boxes are shown in that particular ' Mills ' Thread I referenced.

Regards,

LF

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I think I know the piece of kit to which you refer though I don't have a photo. It looks like a canvas waist coat with two long pockets on each side designed to accept (I think) four 18lb shells. I read fairly recently they were designed to convey munitions to the front when no other means of transport could deal with the terrain.

Simon

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The same orders for the 12th SWB raid in July 1916 refers to one NCO having a bomb bucket but also having a 'bomb carrier'. Elsewhere in the same document there are references to men using the pocketed vest to carry bombs so is a 'bomb carrier' a different piece of kit?

Maybe it's a man to haul the bombs for the NCO and not equipment?

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The attached memo mentions the three types of bomb (grenade) carrier that had been introduced in early 1916: the canvas bucket (20 Mills grenades, 24 max), the waistcoat (10 Mills) and the belt bag (six Mills).

265

post-120931-0-46039800-1462974556_thumb.

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I think I know the piece of kit to which you refer though I don't have a photo. It looks like a canvas waist coat with two long pockets on each side designed to accept (I think) four 18lb shells. I read fairly recently they were designed to convey munitions to the front when no other means of transport could deal with the terrain.

Simon

Simon,

I think this is what you mean?

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=238419

Trev

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Thanks gents. The description I read (which are orders for a raid) had each bomber with a waistcoat and one bucket of bombs but the NCO had a bucket and a "bomb carrier" which I take to be something different to the waistcoat it's definitely not a man in this context. The belt bag seems a possibility as it would leave him one hand free but I see that the reference to it is from 1917. Is there a known date for its introduction?

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I doubt the shell carrier would work for bombs being too deep?

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Trev

That's exactly what I was referring to. If the terrain was so bad I certainly wouldn't fancy the trip carrying the loaded weight of such a piece of kit.

Simon

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... Is there a known date for its introduction?

The first demand for grenade carriers was WO Requirement 1071 of 20 March 1916: 171,000 bucket carriers, 57,000 waistcoat carriers and 57,000 belt carriers. First issues to the British Army in the Field were in April.

265

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Great, thank you.

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For completeness, as well as the 6-pocket belt carrier there was also a 2-pocket belt carrier, but production was short lived. Nonetheless 10,000 2-pocket carriers had been despatched by the end of April.

265

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Bomb Carrier could mean anything - it is not the official designation, but what the officer drafting the orders used, and probably what was used within the unit.

Information for your period that I have is this :

GRO 1572 – 14.5.16 CARRIERS, HAND GRENADE.

The pattern of Grenade –Carrier referred to in G.R.O. No. 1232, dated 29th October, 1915 is no longer being supplied.

Issue has been approved of three new patterns of Grenade-Carrier, viz :--

‘Bucket’ Pattern.

Belt-bag “

Waistcoat “

Instructions in regard to their issue have been sent to Commanders of Formations.

General Routine Order No. 1232 is cancelled.

Another reference is from a report by 1st Australian Division in mid July 1916. After gaining information from the 7th and 19th Division which had taken part in recent fighting, one section of the report deals with armbands and indicates that the expression is for a man detailed to carry bombs ;

'Arm bands 1 1/2 inches wide will be worn on both arms as follows :--

(1) Runners a red band.

(2) Wire-cutters a blue band.

(3) Bomb carriers a green band.'

Chris Henschke

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Chris - thank you. The orders I read specifically mention buckets and waistcoats and then go on to mention 'bomb-carrier' so the belt-bag seems to be the most likely in this case.

Mike

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  • 3 weeks later...

The discussion has been exclusively about the UK kit. I am going

to insert briefly the Hunnish side of this topic of toting grenades.

My father fought in the flame-thrower regiment of the Prussian Guard.

They had elaborate tactics to achieve surprise and close within

Flammenwerfer (FW) range, and generally they preferred to attack

without infantry involvement. Therefore the units, down to platoon level,

had, besides FW, especially mobile machine guns and mortars, and many

grenadiers. Almost no one carried a rifle, especially with a bayonet,

as they were considered too long and clumsy for use in the trenches.

The grenadiers wore a pair of pouches under their arms, fashioned from

sand sacks. My father called them "combat vests", speaking to me in English,

although I have never seen this term used in all my readings. They

had enough room to carry at least six "potato mashers", the handled grenade,

which was primarily a powerful concussion grenade, so that the deadly

effect fell off quickly with distance, so the attacking troops could

use it safely at close quarters. The FW troops carried special "potato

mashers" called storm grenades with 3 1/2 second fuses, while the standard

grenade had a 6 1/2 second delay (The delay was printed on the wooden

handle.), again to allow use at closer distances. Typically the grenadier

also carried four "egg grenades", a weapon similar to the Mills bomb. While

the handle gave an advantage throwing the heavier "potato masher", I

believe that the egg grenade usually had longer range. My father told me

of a brave French soldier, counting the seconds, who caught a "storm grenade"

to toss it back only to have it explode in his hands due to the shorter

delay.

Another grenade-based weapon was the "geballte Ladung", a potato masher with

six more warheads wired about the warhead of the central one; my father was

trained to use this powerful weapon against tanks. But it would have little

place in a typical FW assault.

The men were all hand-picked physically, generally were under 25 and

single, and usually were volunteers. Despite this, the combat kit for

everyone was kept to the weight of the standard backpack of the infantry.

The standard FW of the latter half of the war, the Wex, weighed 43 lbs

loaded with flame oil and nitrogen, less than the standard backpack. They

even wore special shoes to provide more nimbleness on the battlefield than

the standard infantry boot.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The No 1 was still being issued in late 1916 so I would not rule out the various carriers that existed for the No 2 which could probably be used for the No 19 as well.

 

Here's a photo from 1915 (Illustrated London News) for the No 2.

 

Also a photo of parts of a No 1 found recently on the Somme. So still in use in 1916.

 

John

 

 

Hale_Carrier _1915.jpg

No 1 Somme.JPG

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On 01/06/2016 at 11:40, bob lembke said:


 The FW troops carried special "potato
mashers" called storm grenades with 3 1/2 second fuses, while the standard
grenade had a 6 1/2 second delay (The delay was printed on the wooden
handle.), again to allow use at closer distances. Typically the grenadier
also carried four "egg grenades", a weapon similar to the Mills bomb.
delay.
 

Bob - The standard fuze for the WW1 Stick Grenade was 5 - 5.5 Seconds, which didn't change in WW2.

 

I'll disagree with you on the similarity of the egg grenade to the Mills Bomb.

 

The Egg Grenade was a simple friction fuzed grenade and was filled with black powder a 'low' explosive.

 

The Mills No 5 had a clever self igniting fuze with a lever and pin safety mechanism which meant the grenade only started the ignition sequence once it had left the Bomber's hand. A pattern that exists to this day. It also used 'high explosive' so was far more lethal.

 

The egg grenade could be thrown up to 50 metres so had its uses. The Stick grenade up to 40 metres and the Mills up to 30 metres.

 

John

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Hi Bob

John is correct in a number of ways,

The Mills is a far more complex and safer ignition system to the German egg or stick grenade.

The black powder within an egg grenade is classed as a 'low explosive' which basically means that deflagration at a slower rate, less than the speed of sound and at rates from several metres per second to a couple of 100 metres per second. High explosive on the other hand detonates with a shock wave passing through it and the speed of detonation is supersonic and can reach around 8 km per second depending upon the composition of the explosive material.

regards

Dave

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On ‎15‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 20:36, Gunner Bailey said:

Bob - The standard fuze for the WW1 Stick Grenade was 5 - 5.5 Seconds, which didn't change in WW2.

 

I'll disagree with you on the similarity of the egg grenade to the Mills Bomb.

 

The Egg Grenade was a simple friction fuzed grenade and was filled with black powder a 'low' explosive.

 

The Mills No 5 had a clever self igniting fuze with a lever and pin safety mechanism which meant the grenade only started the ignition sequence once it had left the Bomber's hand. A pattern that exists to this day. It also used 'high explosive' so was far more lethal.

 

The egg grenade could be thrown up to 50 metres so had its uses. The Stick grenade up to 40 metres and the Mills up to 30 metres.

 

John

 

In the "German Army Handbook, 1918" at page 51 para. 11(b) it mentions in respect of the Stielhandgranate (stick bomb) "It would appear from captured orders that this grenade with a short-burning fuze (2-3 secs) is issued to "assault" troops".  Perhaps that is the grenade to which Bob Lembke's Father referred?  

 

Interestingly, in the same book/paragraph the Eierhandgranate (Egg Grenade) is said to be filled with a mixture of black powder, potassium perchlorate, barium nitrate and aluminium powder.

 

Regards,

 

Michael.

 

 

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Michael

 

I did not dispute that fuzes of short duration existed. Read my post. The Germans in 1915 also introduced a percussion stick grenade with no time fuze, which I would have thought more appropriate for the troops Bob mentions.

 

John

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