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C. Green - the mystery continues


phil1963
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As many of you know I have been trying to track the identity of a C. GREEN listed on a cricket club war memorial in southeast London for a while now whose rank is not shown next to his name. He is the only casualty on the war memorial that has not been identified. The C.W.G.C. website shows that 164 C. Green's died in the Great War. Of the forty-eight listed on the war memorial only six have no rank next to their name and the vast majority were officers (mainly Captains, Lieut's and 2nd Lieuts). Forty-six were in the Army and perhaps surprisingly many hailed from outside London.

Of the six casualties with no rank next to their name three were Privates and two were Lieuts according to C.W.G.C. records and these five have been identified. Both Lieuts died in 1914, so their ranks MAY have been forgotten by club members and even the authorities - a long shot I agree, but a possibility, as the club send out a memo asking members to supply names of fellow club members who died for their country to ensure that all players and club members who lost their lives were included on the memorial. Thus we are left with C. Green to identify.

To date the only inaccuracies I have found on the war memorial are one rank being inaccurate and one middle initial (which he never used) being omitted. Thus C. Green is likely to be just exactly that and not, for example C.A. Green or C.E. Green. Most annoyingly the club DID have a member called C.Green and another called C.E. Green, but the club cannot assist as to who these members were.

So ......... going on from both Lieuts dying in 1914 and their rank being forgotten/omitted, I checked the amount of C.Green's who died in 1914 ......... and there are just five. Three were Privates, 1 was a Sapper and 1 was a Stoker First-Class in the Royal Navy. Of these five just two are recorded as plain C. Green .... with no other initials.

So......... can anybody assist with more details about these two:

GREEN, CHARLES

Rank: Private
Service No: 4555
Date of Death: 26/08/1914
Regiment/Service: Suffolk Regiment 2nd Bn. Memorial: LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL

GREEN, CHARLES

Rank: Sapper
Service No:17959
Date of Death: 01/11/1914
Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers 26th Field Coy. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
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7791 Charles Frederick Green Royal West Surrey died 15 9 14 came from Croydon a possible ? being a Northener is Croydon S East London ? Ralph.

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Phil

Is there a reason for concentrating on those died in 1914?

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Would it be correct to assume that the men mentioned would have been serving prewar ?

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4555 Green is reported missing 4th Nov 1914 and not 'Previously Missing, Now Reported Killed Or Died' until 1st March 1916. Whereas date of death seems to be considered 26th Aug 1914.

17959 Green only has a 'wounded and missing' entry, report received 11th Nov 1914, Daily List date 28/12/1914. No follow up mentioning his death.

Info from WO Casualty Lists.

TEW

Soldiers effects has 4555 Green's death as 9/4/15, presumed, unknown. Widow Norah, Son Alfred Leslie. £17/7/8

17959 Green presumed 1/11/14, Father Elijah, £10/4/6

Sure Craig could say how much service they had

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Is this another C E Green?

post-34209-0-24421900-1462025216_thumb.j

TEW

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4555 Green is reported missing 4th Nov 1914 and not 'Previously Missing, Now Reported Killed Or Died' until 1st March 1916. Whereas date of death seems to be considered 26th Aug 1914.

17959 Green only has a 'wounded and missing' entry, report received 11th Nov 1914, Daily List date 28/12/1914. No follow up mentioning his death.

Info from WO Casualty Lists.

TEW

Soldiers effects has 4555 Green's death as 9/4/15, presumed, unknown. Widow Norah, Son Alfred Leslie. £17/7/8

17959 Green presumed 1/11/14, Father Elijah, £10/4/6

Sure Craig could say how much service they had

Both had minimum gratuity, so 12 months or less war time service is all you can say (which isn't much good when neither of them could have had more than 12 months war service anyway based on their date of death).

Unfortunately you can't a set a minimum period either as there was no minimum service qualifying period as long as a man served overseas ( 6 months minimum service to qualify if he didn't).

Craig

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Rather than trawl through lots of previous posts, what cricket club are we dealing with, as a location in South London might help narrow down some aspects of the search.

The newspaper clipping referring to C E Green COULD perhaps also link to a son with same initials etc etc.

Knowing which club may enable someone with expert cricket knowledge run through potential candidates, not perhaps just those in 1914....

Apologies if this intrusion doesn't help, but it might help others to help you.

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Hi All

The C.E.Green who was captain at Leyton Cricket Club was Charles Ernest Green he was the main campaigner to buy the ground. In 1921 the ground was sold to the Army Sports Central Board and therefore the £10000 mortgage was settled. As IPT has posted if he died in 1916 then he was born 1846 and obviously didn't serve in WW1.

Perhaps the club may be able to shed some light on the subject if they are given the info....presuming we are discussing the right club!

Regards Barry

Just to confuse everyone, there was a Charles Ernest Green of Knotts Green Road, Leyton, Essex who died on 13.5.15 at Ypres. He was a saddler in the Essex Yeomanry...Probate.

Charles Ernest Green...history...

http://japwhpl.barodacricketassociation.com/Archive/Articles/0/723.html

Edited by The Inspector
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If the memorial is at a SE London CC then it is either a London suburb or at the time of WW! possibly came under Kent. So the name of the club is a must.

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The newspaper clipping referring to C E Green COULD perhaps also link to a son with same initials etc etc.

Christopher Ernest Green didn't have any children.

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Hi

CHARLES Ernest Green, correct he didn't have any children. He was a wealthy ship owner left over £227K when he died.

Regards Barry

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I think the OP was for Surrey CCC, Kennington. I wondered if C E Green Essex cricketer may have been commemorated there as an honourable and worthy opponent.

His age seems to suggest that's a big no!

Is it definitely a casualty memorial or maybe a roll of honour?

There are 17 Greens on CWGC with addresses in Surrey including these two ; Claud Green and Claude Henry Green

TEW

Previous post

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179089&p=1742186

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Hi

CHARLES Ernest Green, correct he didn't have any children. He was a wealthy ship owner left over £227K when he died.

Regards Barry

Absolutely CHARLES Ernest Green. :whistle:

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Hi,

Thanks for the help. Both OFFICERS on the war memorial whose rank are not shown died in 1914 and NONE of the three Privates have their rank shown which seems odd. However the three Privates died in various years.

I just wondered if this elusive C. Green died in 1914 too and his rank was forgotten and thus omitted, yet when I checked on C. Green's who died in 1914 I found but five. I am happy that he WILL be shown as C. Green with no initials and 46 of the other 47 casualties listed have their details spot on. I too found C. E. Green the Essex chap but he was 70 when he died and it is not him.

The memorial is at Surrey Cricket Club (The Oval) in Kennington, LONDON and to date the casualties listed on it have come from abroad and all over the U.K., so I cannot state that he will be a local lad. My far is that he is one of the 164 Private C. Green's who died in the Great War.

Had he had another initial, or had he been an officer and thus his rank shown, I could have narrowed it down to 5-6. Sadly I fear that he will be our own "unknown warrior".

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Can I just check something, in the OP the club is in SE London. From another cricket based post mentioning C Green I assumed this was a continuation based on a plaque at Kennington, Surrey.

It's not Kennington, Kent is it, which would be SE.

TEW

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No, definitely Kennington, Southeast London. It's so annoying that he has a reasonably common surname and is perhaps one of just 4 Privates out of 48 on the said memorial.

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Snipped

The memorial is at Surrey Cricket Club (The Oval) in Kennington, LONDON

Kennington Surrey (Oval) is SW, Kennington Kent is SE

TEW

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