Phil Wood Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 Edwin James Maccabee is recorded by CWGC as died 31 July 1917, serving in 1/4th Ox & Bucks LI and is buried in Irish Farm Cemetery (concentrated from a small cemetery nearby). So what's my problem? The 1/4th OBLI were at Demicourt on the Somme front on 31 July 1917, relieving the 1/4th R Berks on the night 30/31. (WO 95/2764/1) They did not move to the Ypres sector until 22 July. (WO 95/2764/1) So what would Maccabee be doing near Irish Farm on 31 July? Have CWGC got his unit or date of death wrong? How can I tell? Soldiers Effects and Soldiers Who Died both have the same date and unit. His medal roll (VM & BWM) entry shows the same unit but does not mention his death. I suspect the date is the problem, but . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 I can't find a newspaper mention, but the 1917 "Typographical Circular" gives his death as 31st July. He was a compositor on the 1911 census. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 Edwin James Maccabee is recorded by CWGC as died 31 July 1917, serving in 1/4th Ox & Bucks LI and is buried in Irish Farm Cemetery (concentrated from a small cemetery nearby). So what's my problem? The 1/4th OBLI were at Demicourt on the Somme front on 31 July 1917, relieving the 1/4th R Berks on the night 30/31. (WO 95/2764/1) They did not move to the Ypres sector until 22 July. (WO 95/2764/1) So what would Maccabee be doing near Irish Farm on 31 July? Have CWGC got his unit or date of death wrong? How can I tell? Soldiers Effects and Soldiers Who Died both have the same date and unit. His medal roll (VM & BWM) entry shows the same unit but does not mention his death. I suspect the date is the problem, but . . . I'd imagine the date is right as they were compiled at different times from different records (unless the very original report of death had a wrong date). Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 Phil, for what its worth...... 2 other soldiers from the 1st/4th Battalion died that day. Harry Allen 202217 - Died of Wounds and is buried in Gwalia Cemetery near Elverdinghe. Percy Pidwell 203323 - Killed in Action - No known Grave and remembered on the Menin Gate. My War Diary reference has the Battalion at St Jan Ter Biezen on the 31st July 1917 The original burial location of Edwin Maccabee is a long way from there, much closer to the front line, so a possibility is that he may have been a runner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin.green14 Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 Hi The three men mentioned above were attached to 145 M.G.C.. This is from The War Record of the 1/4th Bat. Oxford and Bucks, compiled by Major P Pickford in 1919. Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 21 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2016 Thanks Rollerbeadle - as I deep (but not very deep) down suspected it is me at fault - as usual. I was reading June's diary not July's - doh! So the date is fine(ish). As the battalion had not spent any time in the line since they arrived from the Somme there must have been a reason for 3, presumably more, from the battalion to be in harm's way and, at least in Maccabee's case, close to the lines. I suspect (though the diary does not say so) that they were sending working parties up to the lines. A shell landing on a party lugging gear up to the line could easily account for a chap disappearing for ever, another dead on the spot and another dying soon after of wounds. Craig - my only explanation for a wrong date was an error in the original report - all other records were consistent, but they all track back to that original report. However, as noted above - it is me who is wrong, not the army. Thanks for the input. IPT thanks for the extra info - much appreciated. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin.green14 Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 Here are the entries from the War Diary for 145 MGC:- 30th JULY - On the night 29/30th No1 & 2 sections moved into dugouts at HILL TOP SYSTEM (C 21 d) preparatory to the forthcoming operations (appendix No 3 & 4 sections moved into dug-outs on the CANEL BANK (C26 d 88) 31st JULY - At 1am No3 & 4 sections prceeded to join the remainder of the Coy at HILL TOP SYSTEM. At zero hour 3.50am the Company took part in the operations of the 39th Div Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin.green14 Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 And a bit more:- Total casualties during the day were: Killed (1 Attd), Died of Shock (1 Attd), Wounded 18 (MG), Wounded 4 (Attd) Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 21 April , 2016 Share Posted 21 April , 2016 That all makes sense now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 22 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2016 Great input Colin - thanks! What date is this map Rollerbeadle? It seems to be a little later than the day in question. The burial seems to be a long way forward of Hill Top System where the MG Coy was operating (C.21.d). In fact it's almost into California Reserve Trench - the Company's target that night. Nevertheless the fact that Maccabee was attached to the MG Coy that night is a good explanation for his being in harms way. Would men attached to the Coy (they seem to make a clear distinction here) be part of gun teams or (as seems more likely to me) fetching and carrying - for instance the ammunition and water they had a good supply of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerbeadle Posted 22 April , 2016 Share Posted 22 April , 2016 Well spotted Phil...it is, in fact, an early 1918 map. The earlier ones did not show enough trench detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 22 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2016 Hi The three men mentioned above were attached to 145 M.G.C.. This is from The War Record of the 1/4th Bat. Oxford and Bucks, compiled by Major P Pickford in 1919. Regards Colin This is confirmed by the online roll of honour - http://oxfordandbucks.co.uk/roh.html?searchJson=maccabee Are they mentioned by name Colin? It will be some time before I can get to a library that has a copy - any chance of a transcript of the passage mentioning them? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 22 April , 2016 Share Posted 22 April , 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 22 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2016 ? A number of Maccabees in Newbury - 4 on the war memorial, which may (or may not) include this Edwin James (though Newbury born he had left the town years before the war). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 22 April , 2016 Share Posted 22 April , 2016 It's also a title of four books in the Apocryphal section of the Bible - I-IV Maccabees - deriving from a family who organised a Jewish rebel army in the 2nd century BC. I just can't help wondering how the surname converged with that, but as it's not exactly on topic I should probably research elsewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 22 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2016 One theory is that they came over from Ireland as McCabes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 22 April , 2016 Share Posted 22 April , 2016 Ah, that's possible. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin.green14 Posted 27 April , 2016 Share Posted 27 April , 2016 Hi Phil, Sorry for delay in replying, have been away for a few days. Names are not mentioned in the MGC War Diary. Knowledge of being attached to MGC comes from The War Record of the 1/4th Battalion Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, compiled by MAJOR P. PICKFORD. Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 27 April , 2016 Share Posted 27 April , 2016 ? A number of Maccabees in Newbury - 4 on the war memorial, which may (or may not) include this Edwin James (though Newbury born he had left the town years before the war). As an aside, there is /was a racehorse called Maccabees or very similar trained in Lambourn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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