alantwo Posted 16 April , 2016 Share Posted 16 April , 2016 Could someone let me know which allied troops were in the front line opposite H 11a and H 11b on the morning of 26th July 1915. My thanks in advance. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 16 April , 2016 Share Posted 16 April , 2016 Certainly the 1/5 Battalion Manchester Regiment were on the front line here. According to the 1/5 War diary they were digging trenches on the Eski Line opposing the Turkish H11a and 11b trenches on 26 July 1915. No doubt there were other units there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 17 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Many thanks for taking the time to reply I'll take a look at the War Diary. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 "Lawryleslie";, To divert the topic a bit, if I may, I note in your post of your "Interests" you state that the Collingwood Battalion of the RND was destroyed at Antwerp and, after being raised again, suffered heavy losses at Gallipoli. I find this interesting (My grandfather fought at Antwerp, in a significant role; my father fought at Gallipoli in the Turkish Army, as an OR.) I mostly know the Hunnish side of Antwerp, but I was not aware that the RND got into very heavy fighting at Antwerp, although I did know that one brigade had to flee into Holland and thus into internment. Could you briefly mention how the RND got into heavy fighting at Antwerp? I should then be able to follow the story with my own research. I had thought that when the forts protecting Antwerp began to fall the RND were able to retreat to the west, along with most of the Belgian Army there, except for the unfortunate brigade that ended up in Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Hello Bob. The information regarding the Collingwoods in Antwerp comes from a book written by the Battalions Quartermaster, Lt Geary RM, who was one of only 4 out of 31 officers to survive the 3rd Battle of Krithia unscathed (although he was subsequently wounded on 6th June during the Turkish counter attack). 16 were killed and 11 wounded/missing. I have a copy of this rare book which I have lent to the Plymouth City Library. I have also posted it on Gallipoli 1915 Facebook page and Dropbox public files. I'll try and get a link posted as the book is too big to post on here. The brigade you refer to that ended up in Holland would have included survivors of the Collingwoods. Only 22 men made it back to England. The rest either killed or interned. Edit: link to Dropbox https://www.dropbox.com/m/photos The last image is the book cover then work back right to left to view images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Bob & LawryLeslie, this may be of help The RND's casualties at Antwerp were (per Jerrold's divisional history, see Appendix C) Killed/Died of Wounds/Died – 101 Wounded – 137 Prisoners & Interned – 2371 regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Bob & LawryLeslie, this may be of help The RND's casualties at Antwerp were (per Jerrold's divisional history, see Appendix C) Killed/Died of Wounds/Died 101 Wounded 137 Prisoners & Interned 2371 regards Michael Thank you for this information Michael. Looking at the numbers killed and wounded from all RND, the Collingwoods suffered far heavier casualties at Krithia (205 killed and 400 wounded) than Antwerp. But more were able to fight on within other RND battalions at Gallipoli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 9th Sherwood Foresters relieved the Drake and Hawke battalions in the firing line on 23rd July 1915 after spending two nights at Drake camp (Eski Line). No map refs but they mentioned holding line in Gully Ravine area, with the village of Krithia on their left. They left on 1st August, relieved by French troops. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Alan, At the moment, the closest I can suggest is the 8th Cheshire (40th Brigade, 13th Division) Per Westlake, they relieved the 8th Royal Welsh Fusiliers at Worcester Flat on the 25th and were themselves relieved on 28th. I believe that Worcester Flat is the area where the front line curves upward on the left of the map below (which is dated 22nd July 1915). The question remains who, if any, was between there and the West Krithia Nullah Good Luck Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Thank you for this information Michael. Looking at the numbers killed and wounded from all RND, the Collingwoods suffered far heavier casualties at Krithia (205 killed and 400 wounded) than Antwerp. But more were able to fight on within other RND battalions at Gallipoli. The Collingwood deaths at Antwerp bear no comparison with those from the 4 June 1915 fighting: 8 at Antwerp; 200 at Gallipoli. [RND Roll of Honour] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 (edited) Quote: Per Westlake, they relieved the 8th Royal Welsh Fusiliers at Worcester Flat on the 25th and were themselves relieved on 28th. Cross-checking the above with Westlake's account of the 8th RWF, their position is previously described as follows “Relieved 6th South Lancashire in front line – trenches H11, H12, Worcerster Flat sector (17th). Relieved by 8th Cheshire...” This refers to the change over a few days previously, but since the two battalions made the same change in reverse a few days later*, then (until something more definite turns up) it does seem that the 8th Cheshire were opposite H11 on the 26th July 1915 regards Michael * Perhaps I could have put that better summary 17 July - 6th S Lancs to 8th RWF - “H11, H12, Worcester Flat sector” 19 July - 8th RWF to 8th Cheshire 20 July - 8th Cheshire to 8th RWF 25 July - 8th RWF to 8th Cheshire 28 July - 8th Cheshire relieved and to Gully Beach Edited 17 April , 2016 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 17 April , 2016 Share Posted 17 April , 2016 The Collingwood deaths at Antwerp bear no comparison with those from the 4 June 1915 fighting: 8 at Antwerp; 200 at Gallipoli. [RND Roll of Honour] Think that's pretty obvious from the stats provided by Michaeldr. 101 killed from both RND Brigades in Antwerp but nevertheless the Collingwoods only had 22 men return home the rest being prisoners or internees in Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 17 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2016 Michael Thanks for your response, excellent advice as always and not only to my question! The map helps to illustrate how close the front lines were. H 11a and H 11b were shelled by 'B' Battery RHA on 26th. I've just checked the War Diary for the suggested 8th Cheshire and it goes unmentioned, thus I think I can assume there were no casualties through 'friendly' fire for this Battalion. I'll see if I can find out who were on the Cheshire's right and left on that day. I haven't had the chance to check LawryLeslie's suggestion yet but will do so. Thanks again. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertb Posted 22 June , 2016 Share Posted 22 June , 2016 40th Brigade Diary: 25 July - "Reliefs were carried out finishing at 10.30 am. New positions of Battalions being:- 8/Cheshire R. into right portion of RIGHT SUBSECTION 13th Div trenches. 5/Wiltshire R. into left portion of RIGHT SUBSECTION 13th Div trenches. 4/SWB Brigade Reserve W. of 12 TREE COPSE. 8/RWF Divisional Reserve in ESKI LINES and GULLY RAVINE." 26 July - "Positions of Battalions were not altered" 27 July - "Positions of Battalions were not altered" Hope this might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 24 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2016 Robert Many thanks for taking the time to reply, I'm away at the moment but I'll take a look when I get back. Much appreciated. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now