Remains of 19 soldiers found

[Seadog]

Does anyone know what this means in post 40 and above?

Several older ‘Fire burial remains’, some of them rather ‘rich’

N

[geluveld]

These are Roman period burials

early cremations.

Rather rich means that several object have been found with the remains.

Nothing to do with the great war but archeologically very interesting.

[Seadog]

Many thanks, sound extremely interesting and I hope that there are plans to exhibit the finds to the public particularly the WW1 items.

Norman

[trajan]

These are Roman period burials

early cremations.

Rather rich means that several object have been found with the remains.

Nothing to do with the great war but archeologically very interesting.

I know, off-topic - but out of interest, these are 1st/early 2nd century AD - or earlier?

[Ogilwy]

Julian,

Can't beat Cremation Urns with a few votive grave goods. Except possibly a nice decapitation burial or maybe a Wetwang square chariot!

Back to the topic now!

Rod

[trajan]

Julian,

Can't beat Cremation Urns with a few votive grave goods. Except possibly a nice decapitation burial or maybe a Wetwang square chariot!

Back to the topic now!

Rod

Thanks, and I'll PM later! Yes, indeed, back on topic from now...

[Bert Heyvaert]

Dear all,

 

I would like to inform you that members of the same team have now also found the remains of 3 Belgian soldiers (12de linie Regiment, 1914) on another excavation in Dixmude. None have been identified yet. Belgian MOD will release more details on friday in a national press conference. It is the first time since 1952 that the remains of missing Belgian soldiers of world war 1 have been retrieved.

 

Regards,

 

Bert

[Toby Brayley]

11 hours ago, Bert Heyvaert said:

It is the first time since 1952 that the remains of missing Belgian soldiers of world war 1 have been retrieved.

 

 

 

Bert, 

 

Glad they have been found, I hope some can be identified. I am astonished to learn that they have not found any Belgian casualties since 1952! 

 

Regards

Toby 

[Bert Heyvaert]

Well, a few years back Belgian soldiers have been unearthed at the fort of Loncin when a few tunnels were opened up for stability works. But they were allready  remember on a memorial at the fort and were known to be there. The collapsed tunnels of the fort were considered their final resting place. So this is the first time in over 60 years that Belgian soldiers with no known grave have been recovered. Alongside them, a french marine (fusilier marin) was also recovered. Both regiments were fighting side by side there in 1914. Toby, I share your hopes for a positive identification.

 

regards,

 

Bert

[cdr]

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/westvlaanderen/1.2694712

 

article on this find (just wonder what the skull shaped objects are ???)

 

Carl

[trajan]

1 hour ago, cdr said:

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/regio/westvlaanderen/1.2694712

 

article on this find (just wonder what the skull shaped objects are ???)

 

Carl

 

Candle holders, I think. Black humour as memento mori...

[MelPack]

A google translation of the article in the link posted by Carl above;

 

During archaeological research in Tuinwijk in Diksmuide, the remains of four soldiers killed in World War 1, three of whom are Belgian, have been found found. The find is remarkable because it is the first time since 1952 that the remains of Belgian soldiers have been found.

 

The remains were found two weeks ago. It involves three soldiers of the 12th Regiment of Line of Spa, which probably fell in October 1914. The fourth body is a French soldier. The captain of the 12th line had its headquarters in the former town hall.

"On the basis of material finding we could establish that they are soldiers of the twelfth line," explains archaeologist Marie Lefere increasing. It has been found nodes at each of them, to which a "12" is written. "There were also found personal items: a bottle of perfume, a comb, a small hand gun, ... The trenches are further explored in order also to dig up any other stuff."

"Definitely an opportunity that does identify"

Meanwhile, the process has been initiated to establish the identity of the Belgian soldiers. On the basis of the list of soldiers of the regiment who fought in the trenches Diksmuidse and which are still missing from that period, one could already reduce the number of possible identities to thirty. "Examination of the bones can conclude on age, size ... At we can further reduce the number accordingly. If the number can be reduced sufficiently, we try to match the identity through DNA testing by relatives. It is a long and difficult process, but there is certainly a chance that it works, "says Didier Pontzeele Department of War.

If successful identification, the relatives choose what happens to the remains. They can choose to return to the family or a funeral on a Belgian military cemetery. "In that case, they might end up in De Panne. They then get an official military funeral. The budgets for the graves have been cleared," said Pontzeele.

The archaeological survey was conducted in response to a large development on the site. There should be more than 100 residential units. There remains of the medieval Dixmude were found and the remains of Belgian and German trenches. The soldiers were found in a Belgian trench.

[keithfazzani]

1 hour ago, trajan said:

 

Candle holders, I think. Black humour as memento mori...

I think you are right Trajan, I have seen them before, am racking my brain to remember where! It'll come to me at some point. 

[cdr]

http://www.warveterans.be/news/lichamen-belgische-soldaten-uit-de-eerste-wereldoorlog-gevonden-de-dienst-oorlogsgraven-van-het-instituut-voor-veteranen-speurt-naar-hun-namen/id-menu-415?switchLanguage=1

 

some more info concerning this find

 

Carl

[trajan]

On 6/25/2016 at 15:56, keithfazzani said:

I think you are right Trajan, I have seen them before, am racking my brain to remember where! It'll come to me at some point. 

 

Mind you, looking at the size as in the link above, and without reading it - tobacco pipe bowls?

[LDT006]

One of the remains found has been identified as WALKER, HENRY JOHN INNES of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

This will be revealed in a TV documentary tonight but it's already in the news:

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/cultuur%2Ben%2Bmedia/media/1.2752640

 

CWGC link:

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/912603/WALKER, HENRY JOHN INNES

 

Luc.

[MelPack]

His remains were conclusively identified by his initials both on his metal coin case and(remarkably) the leather of his binoculars case.

Walker hailed from New Zealand where he still has living relatives.

[MelPack]

Link here for NZ reporting:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11701728

[AOK4]

13 hours ago, LDT006 said:

One of the remains found has been identified as WALKER, HENRY JOHN INNES of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

This will be revealed in a TV documentary tonight but it's already in the news:

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/cultuur%2Ben%2Bmedia/media/1.2752640

 

CWGC link:

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/912603/WALKER, HENRY JOHN INNES

 

Luc.

 

I saw the programme as well and had some questions: is it allowed that the remains are not handed over to the police/Belgian army to hand them over immediately to the responsible graves services of the country involved? It was the private archaeologists who did the research on the remains.

 

How about the human remains being shown on TV just like that? I believe there is a policy in the UK not to show the actual remains (in France and other countries they have no problems showing human remains from WWI). I remember a few years ago that the remains of the Lancashire Fusilier who was found near Tyne Cot Cemetery, caused a bit of discussion (if I recall correctly).

 

Jan

[trajan]

Now an English version of the report mentioned in post 66 - http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/The%2BGreat%2BWar/1.2755831

[egbert]

On ‎30‎.‎08‎.‎2016 at 11:12, AOK4 said:

 

I saw the programme as well and had some questions: is it allowed that the remains are not handed over to the police/Belgian army to hand them over immediately to the responsible graves services of the country involved? It was the private archaeologists who did the research on the remains.

Jan

Jan, was it a private entity that handled the WW1 dead without supervision of the Belgian authorities and without their involvement and consent? (I cannot watch the program from here, so need some interpretation help). To my knowledge ALL dead have to be handled through the respective national authorities before any of the involved countries' war grave commission may further process the remains.

[AOK4]

According to an answer I received on the Dutch forum, the necessary authorities were involved (although none of it was explained or shown in the documentary). I remain sceptical though as the bones were shown and the identity of the British soldier was revealed in the show and not through normal channels or by the CWGC or MOD.

 

I know of another incident recently where a German soldier was dug up and everything went public on local TV without VDK etc. being informed. I know from someone of VDK that he wasn't happy with the procedure.

 

Jan

[egbert]

2 hours ago, AOK4 said:

According to an answer I received on the Dutch forum, the necessary authorities were involved (although none of it was explained or shown in the documentary). I remain sceptical though as the bones were shown and the identity of the British soldier was revealed in the show and not through normal channels or by the CWGC or MOD.

 

I know of another incident recently where a German soldier was dug up and everything went public on local TV without VDK etc. being informed. I know from someone of VDK that he wasn't happy with the procedure.

 

Jan

Thanks for info Jan. Would you please advise me which other project/incident you mean where the VdK was also not informed?

[cdr]

Egbert

 

In the last episode of this series they talk with the "Dienst Oorlogsgraven" (part of the ever smaller Belgian armed forces) about this find

 

It is their task to contact the services of other countries (CWGC, VDK)

 

Carl

 

[Guest Norris]

My Grandfather Sargent Norris Sturt 9621 of the 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment is one of the 192 names on the Menin Gate. He was killed in action on 25th April 1915 during the ill fated attack on the German lines near Kitcheners Wood. His body was never retrieved. 

So, you can understand my close interest in this thread. Is it possible he is one of the ones found? Whilst I would like to think so I doubt he will be found. But at least some of his fellow soldiers with get the burial they deserve rather than lying "somewhere in a foreign field.