RAMC man, rank, medal ribbon?

[TEW]

I have used this (spring 1919) photo or crops from it before, once to try to ID units, ranks or signatures. I'm repeating the process because I had a breakthrough with his signature after finding that Sgt/Maj Driscoll from Seale Hayne attended a local funeral in Oct 1918. His signature now jumps out as being Driscoll.

In post#5 of this previous thread

He was IDd as a WO RAMC possibly WOII and the only RAMC WO Driscoll I can find is 45223 Thomas Joseph Driscoll but class I. But signature looks fairly good for that.

I can see he has wound stripe but can't find him on casualty lists, not sure what else he has on sleeves. No sign of service record.

I did wonder if he has a medal ribbon or two or maybe just a fold in his jacket. No sign of a 14 or 14/15 star for above man.

If he is wearing a 14 or 14/15 star ribbon then he may not be the right man, perhaps another ribbon, or none at all.

Thanks

TEW

[Coldstreamer]

if you have ancestry (or ask someone) you can check the pre war medal rolls for his name

[Muerrisch]

Looks very much like WO Class I badge.

[charlie2]

Could the first (left hand as the photo is viewed) be the Africa General Service medal? To me it looks as though it has dark edges and a lighter centre divided into three by two narrow, dark stripes.

Charlie

[TEW]

Thanks for the ID on the WO class I badge. Looking good for 45223 TJ Driscoll. Looked up pre-war medal rolls and found a Pte. T Driscoll RAMC with KSA but discharged due to misconduct 1905, service and medals forfieted.

Another Pte. T Driscoll RAMC, enlisted 1903 discharged 1916 termination of engagement. Separate MIC and roll for him, not 45223.

Possible that the AGSM is not to RAMC which I've been filtering results to, will widen that search.

If I could find 45223 on a casualty list that would do it. But always possible he was wounded summer 1917 or summer 1918 and doesn't show up. Been trying British Newspaper Archive to no avail.

Thanks

TEW

[Coldstreamer]

Could have still worn the ribbons though and/or got his medals back ?

[TEW]

I've checked the ancestry 'All UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949' and not come up with much. Also checked London Gazette with no luck.

Pretty certain he's not wearing KSA ribbon.

There was Pte T Driscoll RAMC 12783 KSA, clasps SA 1901, SA 1902. This is the man discharged for misconduct and medals returned, annotated in KSA rolls 'retn 8/8/05'

Same man but indexed as 12783 Pte J Driscoll RAMC. SA Medal clasps Cape Colony & Orange Free State.

Has a service record on FMP

Pte. 2536 T Driscoll RAMC BWM and Vict. Discharged 5/5/16 Termination of Engagement.

Pte. 2536 GF Driscoll RAMC 1914 Star (user submitted correction to name)

MIC says 3CCS Clasp & Roses.

Also service record FMP

Pte. 5270 T J Driscoll 1st Leinsters QSA Clasps Wittenbergen, Cape Colony, Transvaal

Nothing for Africa GSM, although not certain ancestry have all the rolls or have them indexed correctly.

TEW

[Old Owl]

If he was entitled to the KSA he would automatically be entitled to the QSA--it is not possible to have a KSA without the QSA. Therefore the first ribbon could be that of the QSA? and possibly the second an LSGC? although the latter is unlikely due to his misconduct.

[TEW]

I'll check his record for any more details. Surely, if his KSA and/or QSA were returned he shouldn't be wearing the ribbons in 1919. No reason he can't have re-enlisted and behaved himself and made WO I.

But if his service to 1905 was forfeited can't see how he can earn a LSGC by 1919. Although the man in the OP certainly has the age for SA medals.

Thanks

TEW

[TEW]

Have just obtained a higher res scan of his medals and hope someone can help with an ID of them.

 

And a link to his pre-records on FMP showing SA medal forfeited. If so what is he wearing here in 1919?

 

Thanks

TEW

[Coldstreamer]

Prob felt he was still entitled to it. 

Plenty of medals got reinstated after the war. 

[TEW]

So they may be QSA & KSA ribbons?

 

Given he forefeited good conduct pay in 1902 and good conduct badge July 1905 before being discharged for misconduct Aug 1905 which led to forfeiting 5 years and 250 days service along with QSA/KSA and 2 clasps perhaps he did feel entitled to wear them.

 

Would a reinstatment not be marked on his roll?

 

Thanks

TEW

Edited 17 January , 2018 by TEW
typo

[Andrew Upton]

5 hours ago, TEW said:

So they may be QSA & KSA ribbons?

 

Whatever they are they do not look like the QSA and KSA to me - the KSA ribbon is particularly distinctive with the white section which is simply not present.

[Muerrisch]

Highly unlikely to teach WO I after  severe disciplinary problems ....... not impossible but unlikely.

Wrong man / photo / ID in my opinion

[TEW]

 

Muerrisch,

 

Well, I take that on board even if that causes me a problem.

 

I struggled for ages trying to decipher his signature and then found a newspaper article for funeral near the hospital mentioning WO T J Driscoll, RAMC from Seale Hayne. The signature certainly looks like Driscoll to me and it would be a big coincidence.

 

Thanks

TEW

[Muerrisch]

I am far from infallible. Happy to be shown to be wrong, as ever.

[TEW]

I think I may not have been clear in one aspect.

 

There is the signed photo of a circa 50 year old, WO I, RAMC man with wound stripe. Therefore he has overseas WWI service. The photo is taken at Seale Hayne in Devon circa Spring 1919. Sgt. Major Driscoll, RAMC from Seale Hayne attended a local Funeral October 1918.

 

From that I'm 99% sure the photo is of 'Driscoll' based on the signature, rank, unit.

 

The Medal rolls for RAMC only have one WO I Driscoll and he is 45223 Thomas Joseph Driscoll.

 

The photo seems to show some medal ribbands so I check Boer war rolls and there is a 12783 T J Driscoll RAMC who also has a 1899 service file named to Thomas Joseph Driscoll. Discharged misconduct, forfeited QSA/KSA.

 

So, I'm still 99% sure the Seale Hayne man is 45223 Thomas Joseph Driscoll but the big leap of faith is whether WWI 45223 Thomas Joseph Driscoll RAMC is the same man as Boer War 12783 Thomas Joseph Driscoll RAMC.

 

Thanks anyway

TEW