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Remembered Today:


Martin Brown

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There are some WW1 training trenches outside Shorncliffe Camp Kent down the hill, near the military cemetery.

John

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Martin

There are training trenches near Penally (near Tenby) in South Wales.

There are also a couple of sets on Salisbury Plain near Bulfor and Tidworth. There is a set at Bedlam Buildings near Shipton Bellinger covered on a previous thread.

Regards

Colin

The ones at Bedlam are very hard to see, especially at this time of year. The ones near the Bustard are also pretty hard to see. Further, they're on the training area and so there is no public access to them.

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Remains of training trenches can certainly be found near Pirbright Camp Click to the west of Curzon Bridges between the railway mainline and the B3012 (Hodge bottom); I've also stumbled on what I believe are the remains of training trenches to the north of the Basingstoke Canal & south-west of Porridge Pot Hill; I suspect that there are probably furthers examples scattered around the whole of this area - not, considering the area's long connection with military training, really surprising!

NigelS

Just to the south of Nigel's trenches, there is quite a few trenches situated on Romping Downs area, with a redoubt on the north eastern end of Spur hill. Although living locally, I have never visited these trenches, which are on MOD land, and do not know whether they are accessible.

Please find attached the following Google Earth scans. (I have used the Historic Imagery feature to view them due to differing levels of covering vegetation over the years)

Sepoy

post-55476-0-48875800-1465477935_thumb.j

post-55476-0-25486500-1465478058_thumb.j

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I have a copy of the file with trench map of Frith Hill, Frimley/Deepcut for the time the 57 Division was in the area (1916) doing some mine work on the hill. Its only a small piece of the map

post-7206-0-33648700-1465479275_thumb.jp

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I have a copy of the file with trench map of Frith Hill, Frimley/Deepcut for the time the 57 Division was in the area (1916) doing some mine work on the hill. Its only a small piece of the map

Most interesting. I would love to see the full map. I assume it is tucked into a war diary - any chance of the reference?

Sepoy

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Gareth

Whilst much of the Bedlam trenches can only be seen on overhead photos

large sections still survive in the woodland and vegetation and correspond to the rudimentary trench maps. Luckily as a still serving soldier I have a pretext/excuse to be on the area.

Regard

Colin

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Some excellent images. Thanks for posting them, they remind me of aerial shots of "the real thing" at Newfoundland Memorial Park.

Simon

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The Frith hill trench map is not in a WD it's held at Sandhurst as it covers the cadets view of a battlefield in 1916.

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On 12/06/2016 at 08:58, themonsstar said:

The Frith hill trench map is not in a WD it's held at Sandhurst as it covers the cadets view of a battlefield in 1916.

Thanks

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Thanks all, this is all good and useful stuff and I am very grateful to you all.

 

The Bustard trenches are within the training area nad only one area of earthworks survives well due to filling and levelling in the inter-war and post-war eras: you can see backfilling having taken place on part of the system ona 1920's air photo, though an area at the north of the system is still in use, as demonstrated by clean chalk parapets.

 

Bedlam plantation includes some earthworks in woodland but it otherwise also levelled.

 

The Other sites mentioned are very exciting, especially Frith Hill, which is new to me!

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4 hours ago, Martin Brown said:

The Other sites mentioned are very exciting, especially Frith Hill, which is new to me!

 

Some contemporary artwork of the Frith Hill camp by an internee a can be seen Here

NigelS

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  • 2 months later...

The following news story went up on the Defence intranet today; I don't think I'm plunging the country into imminent danger by sharing the content.

 

 

An archaeological dig, led by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation, has provided a glimpse of what training would have looked like for personnel heading out to the Battle of the Somme.

 

The excavation, which took place on Schedule 3 land (full military training) at Perham Down, Wiltshire, has uncovered what the reality of life in a WWI training trench would have been like for military personnel.

 

The project has been a true labour of love, involving the inputs of people from across the breadth of Defence and the local community. A group of Wounded, Injured and Sick veterans, who are using archaeology as part of their recovery path, took the lion’s share of the excavation work, along with a local voluntary group – the Bulford Conservation Group.  All the ‘diggers’ have signed up to be involved in the next project. A contractor – Wessex Archaeology – completed the fieldwork, whilst civilians of the DIO Archaeology Team ensured that it was audited in the proper way and guided all requirements.

 

The finds were as varied as they were revealing of what military training looked like during the First World War. Grenades and flares, as well as screw pickets for barbed wire provided reminders of the realities of training, whilst the structures themselves – dug deep into solid chalk – are suggestive of the graft which soldiers must have put in to construct the training trenches.

                                          

A number of units are known to have trained in these trenches: Kings Royal Rifles Corps, the Middlesex (including Football Battalion Pals) and Essex Regiments, the Warwickshire Regiment (with Royal Engineer support) and the King’s Liverpool Regiment. These were units that went to France shortly afterwards, where the Somme was their first major battle. 2016 marks the centenary since the Battle of the Somme.

 

The historical legacy which the excavation has unearthed has not been the only outcome of the project. Now that all significant archaeological finds have been recorded and preserved, crucial activity such as military vehicle manoeuvres can continue on the land ensuring that it remains a valuable area for training our Service personnel.

The dig will feature in the BBC programme Digging for Britain in early 2017.

 

 

There were some accompanying photographs, of a dirty sardine tin, grenade striker and .303 blank cartridge; also of a short section of trench excavated, in chalk (none of them very interesting though).

 

 

- brummell

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The project is the brainchild of @Richard Osgood.  Walter Tull would have trained there, and Anthony Eden (both 41st Div).

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  • 2 weeks later...

My girlfriend and I were part of the dig at Perham Down and it exceeded everyone's expectations; the amount of work that had gone into building the trenches and associated structures was totally unexpected.  Over 3km of trenches which included British front and support, German front line, communication trenches, support and 2nd line dug into solid chalk.  Must have been back breaking work - we were just digging out the backfill!  

 

You can see more about it here on the Wessex Archaeology Blog pages:  http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/blogs/news?page=1

 

Breaking Ground Heritage were also involved with Richard in organising the dig and providing support to the veterans that took part: http://www.breakinggroundheritage.org.uk 

Regards

Carlos

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 23/08/2016 at 23:50, brummell said:

...The dig will feature in the BBC programme Digging for Britain in early 2017...

- brummell

In fact it was shown on December 6, 2016. A contact who's deeply interested in the Midland & South Western Junction Railway (which ran nearby) tipped me off today, and I've just see the programme courtesy of IPlayer. Very interesting, featuring a plan (now in the National Archives) of the practice trenches around Bedlam Buildings and artefacts such as barbed wire, an empty sardine tin and items linked to the King's (Liverpool) Regiment. A trench urinal was also investigated. As ever, Richard Osgood was excellent, though I thought that the presenter was being a bit disingenuous, perhaps for the sake of the average viewer.

 

The Perham Down coverage starts at around 11.35.

 

Very good effort.

 

Moonraker

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Sergeant W B Medlicott of the Public Schools Battalion, Royal Fusiliers, arrived at Jellalabad Barracks on August 2, 1915. He regularly visited the hamlet of " Kympton" (now rendered as "Kimpton") two miles away) and mentions trenches and defence works between there and Tidworth; these were the "Bedlam trenches".  Men firing on the ranges had a breakfast of corned beef at 5.45, a four-by-six-inch sandwich to take with them, and tea and bread and butter at night. His diary (IWM: 87/56/1) gives details of route marches and firing. During bomb-throwing practice on October 18, a man lit a fuse and discarded the match into 15 lbs of powder. Three men of the 23rd Royal Fusiliers had their eyes damaged, and others suffered discoloured faces; two specialists from Harley Street came to Tidworth to attend to the former.

 

In the 1920s there were old trenches, dug-outs and the remains of deserted farm buildings at Bedlam and Warren Farm were visible. The Radleian of November 1, 1919  reported on Radley College's summer camp at Tidworth Park: "Our training-ground lay ... in the direction of Warren Farm, and Bedlam Buildings (suggestive names!) To reach it, an area of crumbling trenches and rusty barbed wire had to be crossed, which gave an appearance of reality to the scene".

 

Moonraker

 

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As an aside I have Medlicott's diaries from his time at Bovington.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all, the report is completed and should be live on the Historic England website in due course. I will keep you posted. Very many thanks to all of you who posted and assisted.

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  • 8 months later...

Hello chums

The aforementioned study is now completed. You can download a copy here. Thanks to everyone who helped me with the report. I know it's a superficial review but we hope to produce something more substantial in due course:

 

First World War fieldworks in England

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A very interesting and useful study, Martin.  Could do with the same for Wales as well!  Well done to all concerned.

 

Minor note: in the Glossary of terms p59, the definitions of a Brigade and a Division have been swapped round.  

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  • 3 months later...

Cheers Martin

 

A very good read

 

When are you coming over to Frimley to have a tour of the Frith Hill Trenches this offer is open to anyone, the coffee will be on me and the walk is free

 

Roy 

Edited by themonsstar
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