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Remembered Today:

Flog It. Another flawed valuation.


trenchtrotter

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If no relatives want your war memorabilia give it to a relevant museum to dispose of as they see fit, if the items are important they will keep and display, if not they can put them up for auction to be bought by a collector and benefit from the money raised.

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Museums should not profit from medals IMO. What has been donated was done so for educational purposes only. In my opinion many museums are losing sight of this fact and if you have ever undertaken research in museums you will know that some of them are not always cooperative.

When argued that little can be learnt from ''common' WW1 medals, I would argue each group is to a unique recipient, each with potential story and a window to a past sacrifice of a name that can be brought back into living memory with careful research.

It is very sad that many museums are being forced to close due to lack of funds, but I don't think its down to everyone to donate medals to keep them open!

​Secure your own families future with the money from medals. The rightful owners of medals (the recipients) would not disagree. There are not many recipients from modern day conflicts making donations of this sort, particularly the more valuable gallantry groups.

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If no relatives want your war memorabilia give it to a relevant museum to dispose of as they see fit, if the items are important they will keep and display, if not they can put them up for auction to be bought by a collector and benefit from the money raised.

In previous threads on this topic, the impression was given that the disposal of unwanted items by museums was not always by public auction but by a variety of ways, not all designed for maximum benefit to the museum. I`d be relieved to think that wasn`t the case!

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To anyone thinking of donating items (rather than lending) items to a museum, I say, No No NO!

Far too many tales of items 'disappearing' or being disposed of without proper recourse abound.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tonight's episode saw a memorial plaque and trio ( missing star), original cap badge, super portrait of soldier in uniform, ephemera and his violin valued at £150. He was an original Lonsdale (11th Border Regt) and hic cap badge was theirs too. Went for £1500 and they say what did we miss? The auction house failed to amend also.

TT

Just Googled 11th Batt cap badge the silver hallmarked one and one was sold for £540 by Bonhams (cannot find a date though) mine cost me £400 years ago.

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To anyone thinking of donating items (rather than lending) items to a museum, I say, No No NO!

Far too many tales of items 'disappearing' or being disposed of without proper recourse abound.

Why "NO"? I'm sure there are a lot of such '"tales" but as to "proper recourse", you seem to ignore the fact that a 'donation' transfers ownership in perpetuity . If it is a properly constituted museum the disposal of its assets is at the total discretion of the trustees and they do not have to consult previous owners. The lesson is not to give away something that you still want. Please do not tar all museums with same brush.

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Quite.

And, as previously noted, make sure the Museum want it before you donate it. Another set of medals to join the several other identical sets may well not be wanted.

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It was a brass / gilding metal one not the silver version. Still an expensive and scarce badge.

TT

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  • 1 year later...

Caught a bit of yesterday's (12/04/18)  Flog it! There was an assortment of GW medals, a Princess Mary gift box and an SWB sent for auction. The SWB was described by the auctioneer as 'a George V, services rendered cap badge'  One for the Peaky Blinders perhaps.

 

NigelS

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Essentially, these "experts" know ****** all about WW1 medals, Army ranks and regiments/corps or WW1 in general.This was a repeat from a few years ago so the valuation was not up to date. Makes you want to spit feathers as it is not difficult to find the basic knowledge on the medals and what is impressed on them at least.                                                                                                       If I hear "everyone got those" again when a BWM/VM pair is produced on one of these and similar shows I might just shout obscenities at the TV...

I have tried writing to the BBC about this but to no avail...

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17 hours ago, NigelS said:

Caught a bit of yesterday's (12/04/18)  Flog it! There was an assortment of GW medals, a Princess Mary gift box and an SWB sent for auction. The SWB was described by the auctioneer as 'a George V, services rendered cap badge'  One for the Peaky Blinders perhaps.

 

NigelS

And valued the empty Queen Mary tin at £35.00!    Really?

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Oh, and today, one of the 'experts' valued a 1st day of the Somme casualty BWM at 'only worth about about £20.00!

😦😡

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41 minutes ago, caulkheader said:

And valued the empty Queen Mary tin at £35.00!    Really?

The cheapest price on eBay recently for an empty QM tin was £16.50, less than the asking price of many of the replica tins. 

 Someone has currently bid £32 for an empty tin, despite buy it now prices starting at £25

Highest priced asked is £125!    Really. 

Edited by GWF1967
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1 hour ago, caulkheader said:

Oh, and today, one of the 'experts' valued a 1st day of the Somme casualty BWM at 'only worth about about £20.00!

😦😡

And the medal for the Canadian Expedition with the "Fenian Raids" bar was described at the auction as a "Crimean War" medal.

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2 minutes ago, squirrel said:

And the medal for the Canadian Expedition with the "Fenian Raids" bar was described at the auction as a "Crimean War" medal.

 

In fairness it was paired up with a Crimean Medal with 2 bars, awarded to the same fellow a J Pyle (or Pyke, couldn’t make it out). However it should have been sold as a group, not Crimean, like you say.

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Donating medals to museums?

 

I am not personally in the habit of giving items of value to stangers. If anyone is to benefit from medals that I own it will either be myself or my family. If anyone else wants them I would expect them bid on them along with any other interested parties. After all, the amount they are prepared to pay is an obvious demonstration of both their level of interest and the degree of their appreciation. I have, on occasion, wanted things that I can't afford, but that desire alone does not give me any form of entitlement to them.

 

Mike

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On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 08:10, PhilB said:

In previous threads on this topic

 

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 15:07, mills-bomb said:

I say, No No NO

 

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 05:12, horatio2 said:

disposal of its assets is at the total discretion of the trustees

 

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 08:19, Steven Broomfield said:

make sure the Museum want it before you donate it

 

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 14:24, Medaler said:

Donating medals to museums?

A VERY difficult subject.  I collect ONLY Seaforth, (72/78/Sea/QOHldrs).  Among the groups, I hold a Clr Sjt's DCM for Omdurman, an MM & Bar 8th Army for WW2, and the medals of a Seaforth Colonel.  I would consider offering these to the Museum at Ft George, posthumously, but instruct the family to sell off the rest.  This "plan" does seem to change from year to year.

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  • 2 weeks later...

On the Antiques Roadshow tonight, a medal collector of some years standing presented the following:-

a DFC 1940’s, unnamed value when bought in 1977 = £180, now worth £2000

a Waterloo medal value when bought in 1977  = £180, now worth £2000

a pair (BWM +VM) valued when bought in 1977 = £3.50, now worth £3000

 

The reason for the substantial gain in the pair was given as the internet, because the information available now means that any personal history can be checked, and this was not previously available and possible back in 1977. The Waterloo history already known, and the DFC could not be attributed to anyone

 In this case the pair belonged to 2nd Lt E A Welch (KiA) shot down by Von Richthofen.

Would they be worth that amount?

 

If this observation is in the wrong thread please feel free to ask the mods to move or delete.

 

John

 

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38 minutes ago, Knotty said:

On the Antiques Roadshow tonight, a medal collector of some years standing presented the following:-

a DFC 1940’s, unnamed value when bought in 1977 = £180, now worth £2000

a Waterloo medal value when bought in 1977  = £180, now worth £2000

a pair (BWM +VM) valued when bought in 1977 = £3.50, now worth £3000

 

The reason for the substantial gain in the pair was given as the internet, because the information available now means that any personal history can be checked, and this was not previously available and possible back in 1977. The Waterloo history already known, and the DFC could not be attributed to anyone

 In this case the pair belonged to 2nd Lt E A Welch (KiA) shot down by Von Richthofen.

Would they be worth that amount?

 

If this observation is in the wrong thread please feel free to ask the mods to move or delete.

 

John

 

 

A discussion on a trio to one of Richthofen's kills here talks about value:

 

The "expertise" being delivered on this Imperial German collection from a previous series of Antiques Roadshow had me throwing things at the TV:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gkx85

 

All the best

 

Paul.

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Thank you Paul for the link, it didn’t occur to me to search for a trio:rolleyes:

 

John

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12 hours ago, Knotty said:

On the Antiques Roadshow tonight, a medal collector of some years standing presented the following:-

a DFC 1940’s, unnamed value when bought in 1977 = £180, now worth £2000

a Waterloo medal value when bought in 1977  = £180, now worth £2000

a pair (BWM +VM) valued when bought in 1977 = £3.50, now worth £3000

 

The reason for the substantial gain in the pair was given as the internet, because the information available now means that any personal history can be checked, and this was not previously available and possible back in 1977. The Waterloo history already known, and the DFC could not be attributed to anyone

 In this case the pair belonged to 2nd Lt E A Welch (KiA) shot down by Von Richthofen.

Would they be worth that amount?

 

If this observation is in the wrong thread please feel free to ask the mods to move or delete.

 

John

 

 

It is always interesting to see how this type of televised valuation/comparison may come across to the general public rather than to a collector.

 

Infact this particular valuation, although explained in the programme, will lead many members of the public into believing that their great grandad's medals are worth a similar amount to that quoted for the BWM/VM pair in question.  Sadly, in reality, an identical WW1 pair to a survivor will fetch somewhere in the region of £35 to £45 and one to a fatal casualty will fetch somewhere between £75 to £95 (there are of course exceptions to these figures) but these act as a general 'rule of thumb' for medals to 'other ranks', similar medals to commissioned officers will have a value somewhere in the region of double to treble the figures quoted.

 

Thus, in my opinion, it is very dangerous to make comparisons similar to those under discussion, simply because many viewers hear the valuation only and not the reasoning behind it.  The expert should have made it quite clear that all the medals shown on the programme have infact increased in value by very similar percentages since 1977, unless of course there is something very special indeed to be found about the individual recipient.

 

 

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The Antiques Roadshow seems only to be concerned with value. I wonder how many interesting things we never see simply because they are of little monetary value. 

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16 hours ago, Knotty said:

On the Antiques Roadshow tonight, a medal collector of some years standing presented the following:-

a DFC 1940’s, unnamed value when bought in 1977 = £180, now worth £2000

a Waterloo medal value when bought in 1977  = £180, now worth £2000

a pair (BWM +VM) valued when bought in 1977 = £3.50, now worth £3000

 

The reason for the substantial gain in the pair was given as the internet, because the information available now means that any personal history can be checked, and this was not previously available and possible back in 1977. The Waterloo history already known, and the DFC could not be attributed to anyone

 In this case the pair belonged to 2nd Lt E A Welch (KiA) shot down by Von Richthofen.

Would they be worth that amount?

 

If this observation is in the wrong thread please feel free to ask the mods to move or delete.

 

John

 

 

I thought that the expert cheated on this valuation quiz . He went to great lengths to emphasise that the DFC couldn't be attributed in his description of the medals he'd selected, but failed to reveal until after he'd come up with the result that that the pair were those of one of Richtofen's victims; a bit like asking someone to guess the value of three horses without disclosing that one of them had been a Derby winner. 

 

NigelS

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