Beselare Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 I am now a little square-eyed and experiencing a slight sense of defeat (or strategic withdrawal). I need a trench map of the immediate area of Fricourt showing the location of the following: DART LANE BRANDY TRENCH SUNKEN ROAD (I know there are several, but this one is near Fricourt) LOZENGE ALLEY CRUCIFIX TRENCH LONELY TRENCH. I have tried N&MP, Linesman, and have scoured the internet. I gain the impression that Fricourt is a bit of a desert when it comes to putting named trenches on maps. Has anyone had previous experience of researching this area and has had some success? I just need to be pointed in the right direction. Many thanks Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 The XV Corps 1st July Map of the Official History has the map you require. I can't take a screenshot from the N & MP disk, as not allowed, nor will it allow. If you can find a copy of that map, then that will be the one. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 Brandy Trench was very approximately in the position marked in attached Kmz File Mike Brandy Trench.kmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Regiano Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 Bob. Until an expert on the area comes along to give you a greater degree of certainty, you might like to use the search facility on the McMaster website which will give you a "spread" if a trench crosses a number of squares. I had a look at some of the locations you are seeking and, although not named on the associated maps, I think you can have a degree of certainty on some of them. For example, I'm thinking of Lozenge Alley and Crucifix Trench where you can see the locations on a trench map based on the "spread" of squares that McMaster gives for the line of the trenches. Of course, the names on the maps "The Crucifix" and "Lozenge Wood" also give a good clue and "Lonely Copse" less so. Regards. Reg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 They are not shown on this wiki map but would be to the immediate left of the left of this map. Click If that helps any? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 The map appears on page 51 of this google book Click Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Foster Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 Hi Bob, you should find most of what you're looking for here. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beselare Posted 28 March , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2016 To Mike, Reg and Chris I really hadn't expected such a rapid response, especially on Easter Monday. Thank you all very much for taking the time. Chris - are you allowed to disclose your source - it is a superb map and clearly identifies the position of the 8th Lincolnshires which I am researching. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 Hi Bob. The map Chris has posted is the XV Corps 1st July Map of the Official History map I mentioned. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flers1916 Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 I assume you have a copy of 'Fricourt-Mametz' by Michael Stedman Battle Ground Europe series, Pen & Sword Books ? It has maps of the trenches you need plus descriptions of the attacks. Mine is a well worn copy I use during my frequent visits to the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 28 March , 2016 Share Posted 28 March , 2016 Bob Last June I started a thread in "Maps" called Montauban 1:20,000. There are no replies as yet but I knew someone, someday would need it. It is in the July 1916 WD of 64 Field Company RE of 9 Division. (Page 199/439 on my Ancestry). All the locations you want are in squares X 27 and X 28. Could not see the sunken lane though. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beselare Posted 29 March , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2016 Brian - thank you for the information. I now have the map. Graham and Mike - I have the book and it hadn't occurred to me that there might be some useful maps in it with actual trench names. By the way, the Google book mentioned above is actually the Fricourt-Mametz Wood. I now feel a little overwhelmed with all the help. Thank you everyone. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 29 March , 2016 Share Posted 29 March , 2016 Two different versions of the same trench map ('Montauban' - Parts of Sheets 57d SE/57c SW/62d NE/62c NW - trench dated 2nd June 1916, 1:20,000 scale) showing all the locations mentioned (and only one sunken road). This is possibly the same map sheet mentioned by Brian? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beselare Posted 30 March , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2016 Thank you Dave - it is a different map and thankfully I can use the trench co-ordinates to pinpoint the trenches using Linesman. This is all about Lieut. John Cragg, 8th Lincs., who was killed in the first wave on 1st July. A friend, his grandson, is coming over in June and has expressed a desire to visit the (almost exact) spot where his grandfather was killed. Lieut. Cragg suffered a severe leg wound at Loos, then later he suffered from shell shock and on the third occasion he was kia. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmorris547 Posted 30 March , 2016 Share Posted 30 March , 2016 Bob In the WD of 63 Infantry Brigade WO 95/2157(1) there is a report on the Operations 25 - 27 September 1915. It contains a list of Officer Casualties and 2 Lt J.J. Cragg is named as wounded. There is also a possible reference to him in Simpson's Official History of The Lincolnshire Regt in the chapter on the 8th Lincolns at Loos (p111). It names him as 2 Lt F Cragg and describes what he saw and how he gave a badly wounded German some water. Later (p114) how he saw the CO Lt Col Walter shot down. He is shown as J J Cragg in the footnote (p116). There is a link to Simpson's History in a thread called Lincolnshire Battaliomns. (search with the mis spelling). EDIT I presume you got your information from the WD of 63 Infantry Brigade 01/07/1916. (WO95/2528). There is a report of operations for 01 to 03/07/1916 and a list of Officer casualties (starts at p 11 of 445 on Ancestry). Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beselare Posted 2 April , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2016 Brian - thank you very much for the extra information. I was not in possession of that so I have some more valuable researching to do. I have written this before but it is well worth repeating - how on earth would amateur researchers cope without the help of the Forum? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Wilson Posted 18 December , 2021 Share Posted 18 December , 2021 (edited) There are two "Lonely Trench"--there seems to be one near Lonely Lane, above near Lonely Copse and Fricourt The other one LONELY TRENCH, which West Yorks failed to carry on 17 Aug 1916, a short distance to the east by Guillemont Location Sheet 57 C at T.25.c Source: McMaster Maps War Diary 1st Northumberland Fus. Edited 18 December , 2021 by CJ Wilson add image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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