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Remembered Today:

Can't find MIC or Roll


spud4210

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Hi all,

I've been trying find my Grandfathers MIC for some time now to now avail so I'm assuming it was miss interpreted at the time of cross referencing. I have a man who bears the same first, initial and surname but I'm sure they are not the same man.
My William Bristow Murphy 266508 Kings Liverpool against
William B Murphy 10930 KLR and Labour Corps 597744
I'm pretty sure my William served the remainder of his time with the LC as he was invalided back to England Jan 1918, was sick. I have a photo of him in hospital blues.
Could his service number have been changed to a Regular number ( he was a Territorial)
My father doesn't recall seeing any medals in family home only his photo an the mantle piece.
Any input or direction to point me would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Paul

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266508 should be a post-spring 1917 number. If he landed in France before that date his earlier number would be on his medals.

KLR has a complicated re-numbering system but 266508 looks to be a 7th Bn. number. Territorial.

TEW

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Thanks TEW,

Yes it is a 7th battalion i'm 100% sure he enlisted on 12/05/1915, his pre march 17 number was around 4134 - 4136. I've done a fair bit of research into the 2/7th. He's 1 of about 20 odd soldiers I can't find any index against their names

Paul

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Hi all,

I've been trying find my Grandfathers MIC for some time now to now avail so I'm assuming it was miss interpreted at the time of cross referencing. I have a man who bears the same first, initial and surname but I'm sure they are not the same man.

My William Bristow Murphy 266508 Kings Liverpool against

William B Murphy 10930 KLR and Labour Corps 597744

I'm pretty sure my William served the remainder of his time with the LC as he was invalided back to England Jan 1918, was sick. I have a photo of him in hospital blues.

Could his service number have been changed to a Regular number ( he was a Territorial)

My father doesn't recall seeing any medals in family home only his photo an the mantle piece.

Any input or direction to point me would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Paul

If your man is 266508 then if he only had home service under that number then it wouldn't appear on the MIC. Once the MSA 1916 came in to force then men could be transferred wherever the army needed and re-numbered as required - sometimes territorials were re-numbered in to regular series but...

One of the problems I can see is that 10930 KLR appears to be an Aug 14 number. Could he have been enlisted in Aug 14, been overseas, discharged and and re-enlisted as a territorial in May 15 ?.

Do you know for certain that he served overseas ?

Craig

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5006482788057088.png?k=B82ve-lIk8DYITIwT

Listed as wounded 14/7/17 L'pool Daily Post

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If your man is 266508 then if he only had home service under that number then it wouldn't appear on the MIC. Once the MSA 1916 came in to force then men could be transferred wherever the army needed and re-numbered as required - sometimes territorials were re-numbered in to regular series but...

One of the problems I can see is that 10930 KLR appears to be an Aug 14 number. Could he have been enlisted in Aug 14, been overseas, discharged and and re-enlisted as a territorial in May 15 ?.

Do you know for certain that he served overseas ?

Craig

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Hi Craig, yes he definitely served in France as in the war diary he is mentioed a couple of times. He was awarded the mercantile marine medal as was aboard the Aquitania when she was a merchant cruiser. My father is still alive and knows for sure there were no medals in the house when he was a boy

Paul

Gidday Simon ,thanks for the Post yes I have found that already many thanks

Paul

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He was awarded the mercantile marine medal as was aboard the Aquitania when she was a merchant cruiser.

When was he serving on it ?

Craig

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When was he serving on it ?

Craig

He served on her late 1914 early 15 before she was refitted.

He then went on to sail on a ship to Fremantle before getting back to England May 15 when he enlisted

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Apart from the William B you quote, there are 5 other William Murphy's who served with the KLR and LC, by KLR then LC number they are.

43686 - 47726

81013 - 393894

50388 - 669949

59125 - 562771

73668 - 49635 (this man has the middle initial P)

Sadly none of them list an address. Did he marry or have any children during or shortly after the end of the War?

have you checked the Absent Voters List to see if there are any details for him?

Sam

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Apart from the William B you quote, there are 5 other William Murphy's who served with the KLR and LC, by KLR then LC number they are.

43686 - 47726

81013 - 393894

50388 - 669949

59125 - 562771

73668 - 49635 (this man has the middle initial P)

Sadly none of them list an address. Did he marry or have any children during or shortly after the end of the War?

have you checked the Absent Voters List to see if there are any details for him?

Sam

Hi Sam,

He married in 1913 and they had a daughter in April 1917, that's how I originally found his service number.

I've tried to find AV list for Liverpool but haven't been successful as I don't think they survived.

Going from the birth certificate of 1917 they lived in Othello St Bootle

Thanks Sam

i'm trying to find out where his medals were awarded to before my father gets too old..... he's now 85

Paul

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he may not have been awarded any medals as my own gt grand father only had uk and irish service, served Essex yeomanary. got his full service record but not entitled to any medals

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he may not have been awarded any medals as my own gt grand father only had uk and irish service, served Essex yeomanary. got his full service record but not entitled to any medals

If you read post #5 he's on a list of wounded. Then in post #7 Paul states he was mention in the War diary, it seems not to be a case of him not being awarded medals but what has happened to his Medal Card.

Sam

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If you read post #5 he's on a list of wounded. Then in post #7 Paul states he was mention in the War diary, it seems not to be a case of him not being awarded medals but what has happened to his Medal Card.

Sam

Thanks Sam,

That's what I was trying to say :-)

Paul

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Paul

Have you checked the Labour Corps Medal Roll for the men I listed to see if any had service listed with 2/7th KLR?

I'm not sure how English birth certs work, but Scottish one's list who registered the Birth, although I'd assume if he was 2/7th he'd have gone to France with them I February 1917.

Sam

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Is this your man Click

Mike

As you can see in his initial post below Mike, Paul has already identified that man and for some reason has discounted him.

Sam

I have a man who bears the same first, initial and surname but I'm sure they are not the same man.

My William Bristow Murphy 266508 Kings Liverpool against

William B Murphy 10930 KLR and Labour Corps 597744

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Sorry Paul, but you say YOUR William Bristow Murphy served with KLR and ended up serving with the LC. But he's not the William B Murphy with a KLR number and also served with the LC?

TEW

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As you can see in his initial post below Mike, Paul has already identified that man and for some reason has discounted him.

Sorry guys, missed that. Will check thread again fully when get a minute.

Mike

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Hi Skipman TEw and Sam,

The reason I have dismissed William B Murphy is that his initial KLR number in the medal roll is 10930. As my Williams should have been the 266508 number I'm a complete novice at this detective work!!! I thought his medal would have been issued to his first number when landed in France

Could they have muddled up his KLR number?

Why would he have been issued a different KLR number??

Regards

Paul

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Hi Skipman TEw and Sam,

The reason I have dismissed William B Murphy is that his initial KLR number in the medal roll is 10930. As my Williams should have been the 266508 number I'm a complete novice at this detective work!!! I thought his medal would have been issued to his first number when landed in France

Could they have muddled up his KLR number?

Why would he have been issued a different KLR number??

Regards

Paul

#10930 was issued around Aug 14 - it can't be his if he was off in the merchant navy at that time.

Craig

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Yes, he should have any medals marked with first regiment served with but anomalies have cropped up. From the Liverpool Daily Post list it would appear that 266508 had service abroad and should have that number on a MIC and/or Medal roll but 'should' doesn't mean he will have.

Unless, the Liverpool Daily Post list includes men wounded while in UK?? Same entry not showing on WO casualty List but date is during period The Times weren't printing the lists and the WO Lists don't start till Aug 1917. Not sure where Liverpool Daily Post got their info from.

The MIC to 10930 & 597744 says 'ineligible for 1915 star' which makes it appear he applied for it but wasn't entitled. Or possibly most men on that roll were entitled but his later entry was noted to stop him being automatically issued with one.

Will look in library later at his BT record and there is a single sheet to un-named man on FMP with number 10930.

What dates does William Bristow show in 2/7th Diaries??

TEW

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Merchant seaman records:

Wm Bristoe Murphy
born 26 Dec 1894, Liverpool
Discharge number 790249
Identity cert 395947

According to the card he sailed :

MINNEDOSA - Jan 1919
AQUITANIA - Feb 1919

METAGAMA - May 1919

Craig

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If you look at TNA BT 351/1/102474 he got the Mercantile Marine Medal AND BWM.

TEW

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