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Remembered Today:

Help Identifying Bayonets


ipr73

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Hello again,

I’m researching my friends Grandfather James H Moody S/5576 Rifle Brigade DCM.

These bayonets are in the possession of James’ Grandson and I was hoping someone could help identify them.

To add to the confusion my friends father served in WWII and also brought back various items. We recently sold this German Luftwaffe Combat Helmet on Ebay if anyone is interested.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=219489

To be honest I don’t know if these are from WWI or WWII and a Google search just confused me even more.

Can anyone help identifying these. I have more photos if needed.

Thanks again for the great website.

post-123633-0-02333300-1457648106_thumb.

post-123633-0-74107800-1457648112_thumb.

post-123633-0-19590800-1457648118_thumb.

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The longer of the two bayonets is an Imperial German S98, if the wooden grip is one piece this would be 1902 or before, as the 2 piece type was introduced in that year. This will carry the date of manufacture on the spine, It is complete with its original leather scabbard and frog, the damage to the scabbard is quite common and was caused when the user knelt down with the bayonet mounted on the rifle, the scabbard being prone to damage in this fashion.

The other bayonet is again German, being an S84/98, is probably of WW2 date, but again will carry the date on the spine. Certainly the Webbing frog pictured is of the 'Afrika Korps' pattern.

Both nice things to have.

Mike.

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Hello again,

I’m researching my friends Grandfather James H Moody S/5576 Rifle Brigade DCM. ... These bayonets are in the possession of James’ Grandson and I was hoping someone could help identify them. ... To add to the confusion my friends father served in WWII and also brought back various items.

The longer of the two bayonets is an Imperial German S98, if the wooden grip is one piece this would be 1902 or before, as the 2 piece type was introduced in that year. This will carry the date of manufacture on the spine, It is complete with its original leather scabbard and frog, the damage to the scabbard is quite common and was caused when the user knelt down with the bayonet mounted on the rifle, the scabbard being prone to damage in this fashion.

The other bayonet is again German, being an S84/98, is probably of WW2 date, but again will carry the date on the spine. Certainly the Webbing frog pictured is of the 'Afrika Korps' pattern.

Yes, please check the spine mark on the longer one! There should be a crown over a letter or letters: 'W' for William II of Prussia; 'O' for Otto of Bavaria; 'L' for Ludwig of Bavaria; 'GR' for George of Saxony; or 'FA' for Friedrich August of Saxony. Under this letter or letters there should be an abbreviated year mark - e.g., between '98' for 1898 to '15' for 1915, and another smaller crown and a 'Gothic' letter, the inspector's stamp. Also, can you read the maker's name? Any other markings?

The shorter bayonet is certainly 3rd Reich-1945 - note the serial number. I can't see the maker's stamp on the other photograph as it is a bit blurry, but knowing that might allow the bayonet to be dated more precisely. I am not to good of post 1918 frogs, but I this is certainly a 3rd Reich type - however, AK ones were usually/always canvas...

Trajan

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@Mike @Trajan

Hello again. Still waiting on close up photos of the bayonets but this is the information I have at the moment.

Long Bayonet

· A Crown, Letter W, and 04 (1904?)
· The grip is a 2 piece design (Post 1902?)

Small Bayonet

· W.K.C. and 2531 ??????

I will check for other markings and post close up photos as soon as.

Can anyone recommend where to sell these items and a ball park figure? Prices online vary. Apparently Ebay won't allow them (They allow kitchen knives though. Daft).

Thanks again guys.

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@Mike @Trajan

Hello again. Still waiting on close up photos of the bayonets but this is the information I have at the moment.

Long Bayonet

· A Crown, Letter W, and 04 (1904?)

· The grip is a 2 piece design (Post 1902?)

Small Bayonet

· W.K.C. and 2531 ??????

I will check for other markings and post close up photos as soon as.

Can anyone recommend where to sell these items and a ball park figure? Prices online vary. Apparently Ebay won't allow them (They allow kitchen knives though. Daft).

Thanks again guys.

eBay prohibit the sale of weapons. They do however allow the sale of "Antiques".

Value is a piece of string, it's dependent on condition, interesting markings etc.

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... W.K.C. and 2531 ??????

I will check for other markings and post close up photos as soon as.

Sounds like it is one of the so-called 'Commercial' bayonets, made by Weyersburg, Kirschbaum in the 3R period, for retail to units that did not receive military issue ones - and there were quite a variety of these! There is a reference photo and a short description of these at: http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques.com/german-wwii-commercial-grade-s8498-bayonet-wkc-mfg.19809.archive.htmI have one with late-war ribbed bakelite grips, but the grips were not usually ribbed at all.

Trajan

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As Trajan has already noted the cypher on the spine of the S98, is that of William 11/Kaiser Wilhelm 11 of Prussia. The bayonet was made in 1904 and the makers mark will be found under the crossguard, (around 10 known makers). The crossguard may also carry some markings relating to the regiment that the weapon was originally issued to.

Mike.

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  • 2 years later...

I was hoping that someone may be able to assist me in identifying this Bayonet....I don't know much about it and the only marking # wise are on the the grip they

M65772...

 

My dad picked it up in a Yard Sale lol...Anyway Many thanks in advance 

 

Mike

 

 

63D306A9-8D48-41C8-A42B-D6B34ACE2F6F.JPG

67D78875-FF33-4D7E-8C28-27E890C8292F.JPG

69ED9FC7-A7BC-44FD-A7B6-DEFBF5F08D2D.JPG

ED423F5C-77AA-40F6-8BB9-E2FEFFB31AFF.JPG

CD31B9F4-E09E-4B3F-8C59-BC45F4DCF3F5.JPG

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I believe this is an Italian M1938 Bayonet (WWII vintage). SEE HERE

in 1940 a lot of these were also purchased by Finland and used 41 onwards, does it fold? (early ones did later ones not)

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons
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That was quick many thanks ...It does not fold ...i checked the link you sent and it very similar but not exact mine Scabbard is different and it has a "final" or a guard opposite the barrel ring 

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You are welcome Mike, I think there are several versions of the scabbard (mentioned on the link I posted) with a frog button or belt loop - if you do a google image search for "Italian M38 bayonet" you will see examples like yours.

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons
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Chris ...

I did just that and you are so correct .  And I am so thankful...That one and British SMLE 1907 Pattern Sanderson Bayonet at a yard sale for $5

Thanks again and Be Well ...

Mike 

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On 13/01/2019 at 22:20, LIB said:

... That one and British SMLE 1907 Pattern Sanderson Bayonet at a yard sale for $5 ...

 

:o Great finds there! Do show us the Sanderson when you can...

Edited by trajan
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Hi there.

Bayo ID and question.

its a 98/05 n.A. reused after WW1 by.....Chezks maybe...

Just guess because the style of the new local scabbard.

And the question, Do you belive this bayo, or similars, has now more value than same bayonet but with no aditional foreign marks, or less ?

pics.

38DEFEB6-E535-4378-B132-B192BE46D702.jpeg

4D1E9E35-94EC-4F6E-8E9F-003F5B931E40.jpeg

09922372-9D04-445C-BCA8-31F8BAC2A3F2.jpeg

AD7BA550-0230-4141-91B1-75202948F3F7.jpeg

A9749B39-B9C0-4E37-BAD6-3AE8D2783B52.jpeg

24B1C16E-6B12-4EE6-B86D-37BDC908DFE9.jpeg

CB4C1750-20F8-407C-BFD1-FBC9257E8FE0.jpeg

EE3DE201-A357-427B-ACED-4EA8DFBEB338.jpeg

899B93B5-A491-415D-B550-6896ADEE82B1.jpeg

Edited by Gernika
Eee
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  • 9 months later...

Yes the last one pictured is S98/05 used in Czechoslovakia postwar , there is new scabbard made in Zbrojovka Brno, S lion 1 on blade, speaks for Depot nr.1 near Prague. T could be telehraph Battalion.

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