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tullybrone

CHANGE IN MOD POLICY - WILL NOW ISSUE PREVIOUSLY UNISSUED WW1 MEDALS

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tullybrone

Hi,

I've posted on another topic - see link - where it has been asserted that MOD have changed established policy and wil issue previously unissued ( not only returned) WW1 campaign medals.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=235435&view=getnewpost&hl=&fromsearch=1

Will be of great interest to members who are NOK of service personnel who did not claim medals ie Commissioned officers

See reply to my query below.

Good Luck

Steve Y

I spoke to the mod.

If the medals were never issued they are now sending them. There was a challenge. They are not replacing medals lost or sold.

You need to send either the mic or the medal roll proving they were not issued.

You also need to fill in a medal claim form from the mod Google ww2 medals for form

If the medals were never issued legally they belong to nok. They officially stopped issuing and replacing medals back in the 1980's but did a u-turn in 2014 for the 100 anniversary

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KevinBattle

I'm sure all will realise it's the MoD (UK Ministry of Defence) and not the esteemed team of Administrators here!

Seriously, though, why is the Medal Claim Form shown as WW2 medal?

To clarify, if the Medal Index Card shows an IV (Issue Voucher) reference, then the MoD will state that the medals have been issued but since lost and NOT reissue, unless those medals were never delivered and returned as unclaimed.

If, however, there is no IV or other reference to the medals having been previously issued, then Next of Kin now can claim on their behalf.

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Andy Wade

Does this mean I can now claim for my Grandfather's medals since there's no IV reference on the card?

Image shown as a small cropped section, for discussion purposes only:

post-9980-0-27709900-1457305850_thumb.jp

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tullybrone

Andy,

My understanding has always been that if your relative was an "OR" then his medals would have been automatically sent to him at his last known address - or if a casualty to his NOK last known address.

I have 4 sets of OR relatives medals - 2 survivors & 2 casualties - and their MIC's are in the same format as the image you have posted.

If Medals had been "returned" to the "Medal Office" there would have been further annotation on the MIC.

I think it will be difficult for OR NOK to prove the medals weren't issued unless the MIC (or medal roll) is annotated.

Different scenario for officers though as they had to apply for medals.

However having said all that if someone can post the specific new criteria MOD are using we will all be better informed (I did ask James to post a link on the the other thread).

Kevin,

I did notice WW2 medal claim form reference by James but have not queried it with him.

I have started this topic in the hope that other members will test this new MOD process outlined by James and submit claims for medals as was the case with the "returned medals" topic I started 18 months ago.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=216669&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

Steve Y

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The Inspector

Hi All

I have never known my maternal grandfather as my mum was a twin "given away" shortly after her birth. Having traced living relatives with the help of pals on this site and Ancestry I found out he was a Stoker 1 in the Navy, drank too much, was kicked out and conscripted into the Army. He was a trio holder in the Navy but the medal roll shows "F" and "R", which I understand means forfeited and for running. The Army medal rolls show he was issued the BW Medal which was returned under Reg 1743 and his MIC is endorsed, so am I right in thinking I could apply for the BW Medal but not the Navy trio? (Pte 39851 Leonard Holland, Hampshire Regt.. Levi Holland (changed his name to Leonard),K13682 Navy)

Regards Barry

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tullybrone

Barry,

If I was you I would apply for all as MOD appear to be turning established medal issue policy on its head in relation to WW1.

Good Luck

Steve Y

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The Inspector

Hi Steve

Thanks for your reply, having read the application form it's not that simple. I have an elderly aunt who is the NOK and it would appear that she will have to apply based on the rules of intestacy and the MOD guidelines. I'ii give them a call and see what they say.

Regards Barry

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The Inspector

Hi All

Spoken to the Medal Office, extremely helpful, suggested I apply for all medals just to make sure but the BWM (Army) shouldn't be a problem. Let them have as much info. as possible. Sending out app'n form BUT will have to be signed by the official NOK. Fingers crossed.

Direct Line 0800 085 3600

Regards Barry

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james_harvey

If you google ww1 medals you get the hot we are no longer replacing ww1 medals

If you search ww2 medals you get directed to the mod.gov site and get an order form.

The form states at the top we are no longer replacing medals prior to ww2

So in medal box at the top clearly write 1914 star, 1914-15 star bwm victory etc...

You also need to provide both sides of medal index card or medal roll or any other evidence.

The official next of kin needs to sign. This is important as the claim will also be rejected

You also need to supply proof of death either cwgc page or death certificate

I have successfully applied for my 2xgreat uncles medals and I am waiting for my great grandfathers victory medal

I have also had a 1914 clasp successfully approved and as you know these had to be applied for.

This has taken 16 years Since I first applied and was refused and in 2014 they changed their policy due to the high interest and other relations applying.

These medals are not the original ones that were return but freshly minted ones. Direct from the Royal mint.

This is how I know an officers family can apply as I helped a friend apply for his distant officers medals

I get a little bit fed up with people calling me a liar and making sarcastic comments about why search ww2. Why not do what I did and find out. Ok if that is your attitude don't bother applying but

I am trying to help people.

The mod told me no 12 times before they issued them, and I also got my grandfathers defence medal issued this year after they told me in 2000 he had recieved his full allocation of 4 medals in 1948

I supplied proof of his service and a copy of the original remit of the award of the defence medal and they finally relented.

It's hard work but it has paid off.

One last word of warning. When the medals arrive you need to sign a declaration saying you will not sell them, if you do sell them you can be prosecuted.

I suppose this is to stop people making a quick profit and if for genuine family to cherish and remember a ww1 hero

If any ones needs a hand please ask and good luck

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The Inspector

Hi James

Asked the MOD what do we do if we don't know when my g/father died, he just disappeared after appx 1922. As he was born in 1892 she agreed that it is safe to presume he is now deceased, but the proof of the pudding.....

Regards Barry

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james_harvey

Andy you need to look at page 2

Those are the roll reference number which means they were issued

The roll will state returned or not claimed or the rear of that card will state returned or disposed or never claimed

My own gt grandfathers only shows 1914 star and war medal

The roll also shows 1914 and war medal

And in his papers there is a receipt for 1914 star without clasp and war medal and a note saying no victory medal

I have applied for his victory medal and this has been approved and I am waiting for the Royal mint to make it

Takes about 3 months. As they are only minting small batches of approved medals at a time.

Does this mean I can now claim for my Grandfather's medals since there's no IV reference on the card?

Image shown as a small cropped section, for discussion purposes only:

Wade MIC crop.jpg

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james_harvey

Barry

Good luck, I would also assume as no living ww1 vets are still alive but I only passed on what I was told and I had 1 claim returned as no death certificate but I had told them he was Kia so sent cwgc page.

Hope you are successful

Hi James

Asked the MOD what do we do if we don't know when my g/father died, he just disappeared after appx 1922. As he was born in 1892 she agreed that it is safe to presume he is now deceased, but the proof of the pudding.....

Regards Barry

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tullybrone

James,

Thanks for outlining the process you followed. I'm sure it will be helpful to members. It's a shame MOD do not appear to have updated their website information.

Can you just clarify one point re your great uncles medals which seems to conflict with a post on the returned medals thread.

Was your successful application for your great uncles medals under the returned medals criteria, as you posted on the other thread, or under the "unissued" criteria subject of this thread?

Steve Y

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KevinBattle

James, to clarify any possible misunderstanding, I was not inferring you were a liar, it's just unexpected that a Form apparently for WW2 medals (which can be ignored) and used for WW1 medal applications.

I (like many here) appreciate your information that WW1 medals that meet clearly defined criteria, can be applied for and received.

You have spent 16 years over this, I've just dropped in out of curiosity and a little humour (I hope).

Congratulations on having achieved a remarkable result and that all this work has not been in vain and could be of great help to many here.

One has to hope that recipients are genuine and do not seek to sell them on, and medal dealers should be able to spot these versions.

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westkent78

James and Steve,

This is great news. Time to apply for my grandfather's WW1 pair as he never bothered to do so. Have to work out who is next of kin for MOD's purposes though.

Seems only fair that they include medals to Officers who never applied, if they're giving a second bite of the cherry to ones that were returned.

You've made my day.

I'll be in touch James once I get all the ducks in a row.

Matthew

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james_harvey

All the medals are being newly minted. With unclaimed medals you need to prove they were not claimed, if there is any discrepancy they will turn it down

My great uncles medals were returned

The 1914 clasp was never claimed and I have been told it has been authorised

I also helped a friend claim an officers trio he is waiting for them to arrive

Once the claim has been accepted it can take a few months as they are striking the medals as and when they are claimed.

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horatio2

This is particularly important for families who do not have RN/RM medals (officers or ratings/ORs) because, like army officers' medals, the Admiralty did not issue medals unless claimed. The absence of an entry in the appropriate column of the ADM 171 medal rolls means that medals were not claimed/issued. There must be tens of thousands of such entries.

Ref Post #5, I would not expect the MOD to rescind the forfeiture of medals by a deserter. His naval service was made as nought by his desertion and he certainly did not deserve to receive medals - nor should his descendants.

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tullybrone

Hi,

Thanks for all members posts on this topic.

Hopefully those members who apply and receive the medals will post details of their experience on this thread.

Horatio - Please feel free to post a topic on Navy sub forum, with a link to this topic, to alert relatives of RM/RN to this issue.

Regards

Steve Y

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Rob Banx

Hi gents,

Trying to find out the location for these medals which I believe were issue to my Great Uncle,

if you can give me some idea of how to go about it , or explain the card it would be greatly apreciated

Rob

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000385-02060?pid=4410422&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3dtry%26db%3dMedalRolls%26h%3d4410422&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

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kenf48

As on your previous post

the guide to interpreting the medal index card is on the LLT

http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/interpretmic.html

As he was still serving when the medals were issued the card shows that his 'war' medals were applied for and sent to the Rhine Garrison, Cologne where he was serving at the time I.e. In 1920 Perhaps if you have look at the guide and then ask specific questions as to what you don't understand we might help you more.

In the meantime 'IV' is issue voucher showing the medals were issued as previously noted. The 14 Star IV dated 17.11.1920; the 'war medals' issued 17/11/1920; the emblems fo his mentions on the same date ( two one for the riband one for the medal ribbon) and the clasp and roses on 24/5/1921.

In other words his medals were claimed and were issued and therefore unlikely or the MOD will consider a reissue, in any event they would make little sense without his other decorations and awards.

Ken

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james_harvey

Just had my great grandfathers victory medal issued, now need to find his1914 star and war medal

Regards

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The Inspector

Hi Rob

I presume you have traced your family tree, he was awarded an OBE and died 18th July 1960 probate to Isabella Mary Cranston, spinster on 28th September.

The Cranston family tree would be the place to look and speak to the relatives, or is it your tree?

I see you already have this photo in another thread!

Regards Barry

607c176d-607b-4ecc-afa6-352b43a3919a.jpg

Edited by The Inspector

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Rob Banx

Ken, Mr Inspector,

Thanks for your reply, apologies for being dense, recently getting into all this, since sorting my late fathers estate,

I found WJCs cap badge from the royal scots greys, and a handwritten letter ( Routine Order number 319) RE: Duties, Cash, Court Martial, fires in billets,

Parades, dated August 1917 which also included

an apreciation letter to WJC, signatures on the letter are,

Col A M Forbes

Lt D R Martin

P D Morrison

Major T Dunne

R S Kentish

***** Lleterson Kelso

cant quite make out Titles.

Thanks again...

Rob.

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The Inspector

Hi All

GOOD NEWS! Just spoken to the Historic Army Medal Assessor at the MOD who informed me he had approved the issue of my grandfather's BWM. He has been extremely helpful but was not aware of the meaning of the abbreviations 'F' and 'R' on the Naval Medal Award Rolls until I sent him a link to the National Archives and ADM171.

If anyone applying for medals has the same set of circumstances as I did then I suggest they send as much information as possible and then speak to the Assessor.

He was very appreciative indeed and no doubt will inform his colleagues which should speed up the process for others.

Decision in less than 2 months. Will update when medal arrives.

Regards Barry

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Rob Banx

Hi All

GOOD NEWS! Just spoken to the Historic Army Medal Assessor at the MOD who informed me he had approved the issue of my grandfather's BWM. He has been extremely helpful but was not aware of the meaning of the abbreviations 'F' and 'R' on the Naval Medal Award Rolls until I sent him a link to the National Archives and ADM171.

If anyone applying for medals has the same set of circumstances as I did then I suggest they send as much information as possible and then speak to the Assessor.

He was very appreciative indeed and no doubt will inform his colleagues which should speed up the process for others.

Decision in less than 2 months. Will update when medal arrives.

Regards Barry

Barry,

really well done, glad for you, and no doubt this will help others

Regards

Rob

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