Soren Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Hello, [/u]Monoculed Mutineer Who remembers this series, about 15 years ago, with one of the McGann brothers?? I remember it was really edge of yer seat stuff........ but was it based on a real event or person? also I can't remember whether he karks it at the end?/ Soren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 There's almost certainly a thread or two about this somewhere in the archive. There was a furore at the time it was originally broadacast as the BBC unwisely advertised it as historically accurate. In fact it was anything but-there is apparently no evidence that Toplis was anywhere near the Etaples 'mutiny' for a start. The historical adviser Dr Julian Puttkowski publicly disassociated himeself from the series (and wrote an article about it in an old edition of 'Stand To!') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Posted 26 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2004 I'll read up on Toplis, obviously a famous mutineer!! I thought he was a mad up character... I'll do some reading.... Soren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essexboy68 Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Soren Percy Toplis was a real person, whether he actually took part in the Etaples incidents or not is a different matter. At one stage he was the most wanted man in Britain, & was eventually killed by armed police in the Scottish Borders, although, that, like so much about him is controversial. One of the strangest things about the story is that after the war, despite being under sentence of death for desertion, he re-enlisted in both the Army & RAF, & allegedly, the Army were well aware of his identity. Actually, I should think it's about time "The Monocled Mutineer" was screened again....................... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Old Percy most definitely crops up from time to time and ALWAYS sparks a good debate. Loads of info here if you follow this link:- http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?act=S...nocled+mutineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Posted 26 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Cheers, that thread was really informative, the tongue bit was quite interesting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Surely the important thing is that the Etaples mutiny happened and Topliss existed, but the two are not connected. There was also something of a mutiny at Calais in 1919, which I believe was caused by perceived delays in discharging soldiers at the war's end, but it became more political than that. Of course, 1919 was a time of great social and political unheaval in Britain and throughout Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 If you go the Cottage Restauraunt at Blackwell, Derbyshire, there are several photographs on the walls of the bar of "The Monocled Mutineer" taken whilst in hiding. outside the existing building. I understand that during WW1 it was a recuperation hospital regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 The mutiny was not a mutiny as such in that the soldiers were not refusing to fight as the french did in 1917 but were very fed up at the harsh training regime at Etaples prior to returning to the front. The subsequent inquiry reformed the training regime accordingly. The program was utter rubbish in historical terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 There is an interesting article on the Mutiny at Etaple on the Shot at Dawn Website - well worth the read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sapper6 Posted 29 November , 2004 Share Posted 29 November , 2004 My Great Uncle Ted was a Kiwi who was at Etaples. Although he never spoke about the war he described Etaples as a hell and till the end of his days could never get over how badly treated the soldiers, who had seen horrific combat and in many cases were shell shocked or wounded, were treated by the authorities there. He despised the Brish system ever afterwards. He did say the Kiwis started a " dust up " and was certain that some instructers [ canaries ] were killed. While the Aussies got the blame it seems the Kiwis were the main instigators. There definitaly was a riot caused by harsh and brutal treatment, just as there was a cover up at the highest levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Posted 29 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 November , 2004 Hello All, Whilst surfing I found this mention of Toplis and his crimes: McHardy was home from the war". This was the first she knew of him. When in the shop at Bellabeg she sold Percy Topliss a packet of Woodbines. Topliss was famous as the "Monacled Mutineer" and was on the run from the police. He hid out at a shepherds cottage on the Tomintoul side of the Lecht where he shot the local police officer and a gamekeeper. http://users.tinyonline.co.uk/amchardy/McH...%20grandparents ight be of interest?? Soren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redrum Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 The T.V. series "Monocled Mutineer" is available as a double video. Watch out for it in the January sales like I did this year and got it for £5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 7 December , 2004 Share Posted 7 December , 2004 At one stage he was the most wanted man in Britain, & was eventually killed by armed police in the Scottish Borders, although, that, like so much about him is controversial. Percy was shot at Hesketh Newmarket in Cumbria, just north of the Penrith-Keswick road. He is buried in the paupers' plot of Penrith Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnie Posted 8 December , 2004 Share Posted 8 December , 2004 The 'Bull Ring Mutiny', broke out on Sunday, 9 September 1917. The MPs on the Canche bridge arrested a Kiwi gunner fora reason which is unknown, but they released him again later. An angry crowd of soldiers, gathered around the bridge refusing to believe that the Kiwi had really been freed. Gradually their attitude became more menacing; stones and other missiles were thrown at theMPs and an attempt was made to storm a guard-hut. A MP, over-reacting to the situation, fired over the heads of the crowd. A corporal in the Gordon Highlanders playing no part in the violence, was hit in the head by a bullet and died soon. Another of the bullets struck and wounded a French woman in an adjoining street. In the evening the disorders at the bridge developed into a riot. The police lost control and were withdrawn, their places being taken by a hastily-improvised picket consisting of 250 officersand men, from the base. In spite of appeals from the captain in charge the mutineers rushed the bridge, barged through the picket and swarmed into the town, where some of them raided the offices of the base commandant. It is significant that besides carrying notice boards which had been torn from their sockets a number of the oncoming throng were waving improvised red flags.For the next hour or two officers toured the streets of Etaples urging the men to return to their quarters immediately. Most of them complied; by about lop.m. all were back in the camp and the atmosphere had quietened down. The feeling among the mutineers that day, the base commandant recorded in his War Diary, had only been directed at the Military Police and the officers had been treated respectfully. Corporal Short a regular soldier had been in France since November 1915, had been arrested on the Sunday evening, was tried for mutiny on the following day by a court martial. This was one of the most hastily convened courts martial of the war, which probably reflects the serious view the base commandant was then taking of the incident. The case against him was very strong. he was found Guilty and shot on the 4th October 1917. The mutiny was finally put down by the use of the HAC officer training unit and two battalions of infantry. Notes: 1 Cpl Short does not appear to have been an instructor as they were all Given the rank of Sergeant. Protection Stripes you could say. 2 The MP who fired the fatal shots was tried by court martial for man slaughter and given one year's imprisonment. 3 Apart from the appalling living conditions, the brutal training regime and lack of recreational facilities. The chief cause of discontent was that men who had already doneso much service at the front were made to do the same strenuous training as the recruits from England, even when the majority were recovering from wounds. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 Mind you I take my hat off to Percy Toplis Why? The man was a common murderer. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 And who had Corporal Short Murdered. What has Toplis got to do with this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 Monacled Mutineer of Etaples Percy Toplis True or False Thats what this threads all about. Do you not know that or did you start reading this thread near the end. Jimmy, James or Geordie Lad The subject of Percy Toplis has been discussed on this forum many times and the general, if not unanimous conclusion, is that Toplis had absolutely nothing to do with any mutiny at Etaples or anywhere else. The character in the TV program is a complete figment of imagination. The real Percy Toplis was a fraudster, attempted rapist, thief and double murderer who deserted from the army. At the time of the mutiny at Etaples he was actually serving in Salonika. So just to please you "Jimmy" and to show that I have read the whole thread. Question "Monacled Mutineer of Etaples Percy Toplis True or False?" Answer: False Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 Jimmy There have been loads of threads regarding Toplis. If you use the search facility you will find them. http://www.shotatdawn.org.uk/etaples.htm http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=3 http://www.derbycity.com/derby/wanted.html http://www.1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7962 Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 But there are questions unanswered here. Did he ever have a trial. And was he found guilty of the crimes He was convicted of fraud, larceny and attempted rape. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 Born Mansfield. Native of Blackwell, Derbyshire (not Chesterfield). In regular trouble with the authorities from an early age. Volunteered for the army in 1914 (ore early 1915 - not entirley sure) to evade the authorities. Joined the RAMC. Served in Salonika. Was not at Etaples in 1917. Jimmy - check out the threads highlighted above. This is a fascinating topic but not too controversial really. Toplis was a career criminal who had nothing to do with mutinies - end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 But did you ever kill anyone after the war was over. Apparantly so. The taxi driver and a Scottish game keeper just before he was killed himself. He was much more than "a bad lad". Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Posted 9 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2004 He also done a copper in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 9 December , 2004 Share Posted 9 December , 2004 Ok then Percy Toplis you were a bad lad. But did you ever kill anyone after the war was over. Cos killing Germans or Greeks did not count that was ok. He would have been in even more trouble if he had killed Greeks in Salonika!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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