Conscription for everyone?

[scratchy907]

Hello,

I am looking to see if someone can offer some insight into possible reasons as to why my great grandfather may never have served in the great war.

As a family, we have never been able to find any proof that he ever served and don't really know why. His name was Frank Walter Odell, he was born in 1885 and would have been 30 in January 1916. After his death and following a very long and exhaustive trail (!) we were able to discover that he was 'committed to a certified inebriate reformatory for three years' in 1907 by the Brentford Petty Sessions. We have never been able to figure out if he actually ever served any time in the reformatory, but I was wondering if something like this could have been the reason that he seems to have not taken part in conscription in 1916?

He was a labourer, other than being convicted under the habitual drunkards act of 1902, he was healthy and within conscription age?

Any insight/advice would be appreciated!

Thanks,

[ss002d6252]

A possible - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4442687

Craig

[scratchy907]

Yes, thank you. That's not him. There is another Frank Walter Odell who did serve and has endless papers connected to him and was close in age!

[charlie962]

This card on Ancestry

Enlisted 12.9.14

Discharged 8.2.15 Sickness KR para 392 III

Oops I see you say this (15077) is not him

Charlie

[ss002d6252]

Yes, thank you. That's not him. There is another Frank Walter Odell who did serve and has endless papers connected to him and was close in age!

What information have you got so far to say who it isn't ?

Craig

[scratchy907]

The medal card above belongs to a Frank Walter Odell born in 1893 in Kettering, Northamptonshire. Our family trees do not match.

My Frank Walter Odell was born in 1885 in Sandy, Bedfordshire but lived most of his life in an around Acton. I have spent the best part of 2 years researching other Frank Odell/Walter Odell/Frank Walter Odell/Walter Frank Odell medal cards, service papers etc. and have never been able to find my Frank Walter Odell's paperwork or any evidence that he served.

[scratchy907]

He was living with a woman (my great grandmother) who we later found out was not his wife, (His actual wife was living a few streets away) and had two children with her - the first born in March 1915 and the second in January 1918. On both birth certificates he is listed simply as a labourer and there doesn't seem to be anything remarkable about him, so I was just wondering how he seems to have managed to skip conscription?

[ss002d6252]

The medal card above belongs to a Frank Walter Odell born in 1893 in Kettering, Northamptonshire. Our family trees do not match.

My Frank Walter Odell was born in 1885 in Sandy, Bedfordshire but lived most of his life in an around Acton. I have spent the best part of 2 years researching other Frank Odell/Walter Odell/Frank Walter Odell/Walter Frank Odell medal cards, service papers etc. and have never been able to find my Frank Walter Odell's paperwork or any evidence that he served.

If a man served only at home then the only record of service would be his service records - 60% + of which were destroyed. There's a good chance he did serve but only at home.

The other option is that he was in an industry where he was deemed to be required more there than the army needed him.

Craig

[scratchy907]

Aah, perhaps that is the reason, thank you.

He certainly didn't work in an industry where he would be deemed more required than the army needed him. He started out as a cabinet maker, spent a period of time unemployed, became a carman at some point, went on to call himself a general labourer.

So maybe the answer lies in the fact that he served only at home and his records don't exist anymore....

Out of general interest, does anyone know what the policy was on those that had a criminal background and conscription?

[ss002d6252]

Aah, perhaps that is the reason, thank you.

He certainly didn't work in an industry where he would be deemed more required than the army needed him. He started out as a cabinet maker, spent a period of time unemployed, became a carman at some point, went on to call himself a general labourer.

So maybe the answer lies in the fact that he served only at home and his records don't exist anymore....

Out of general interest, does anyone know what the policy was on those that had a criminal background and conscription?

Having a criminal conviction wouldn't prevent you being conscripted.

Craig

[scratchy907]

Thanks

[Guest]

Was he born Francis?

Mike

[scratchy907]

Thanks, Mike - no, just plain old Frank!

[Magnumbellum]

I am looking to see if someone can offer some insight into possible reasons as to why my great grandfather may never have served in the great war.

As a family, we have never been able to find any proof that he ever served and don't really know why. His name was Frank Walter Odell, he was born in 1885 and would have been 30 in January 1916. After his death and following a very long and exhaustive trail (!) we were able to discover that he was 'committed to a certified inebriate reformatory for three years' in 1907 by the Brentford Petty Sessions. We have never been able to figure out if he actually ever served any time in the reformatory, but I was wondering if something like this could have been the reason that he seems to have not taken part in conscription in 1916?

He was a labourer, other than being convicted under the habitual drunkards act of 1902, he was healthy and within conscription age?

It is reasonable presume that Frank Odell served his time in the inebriate reformatory; there was little possibility of appeal, and he was unlikely to have the means of conducting such appeal. It is possible that by good behaviour he might have earned some remission.

Although a criminal conviction of itself did not inhibit liability under the Military Service Acts, habitual inebriation takes a greater toll on health than some people even now realise, and it is certainly possible that on medical examination for fitness for military service he was either found fit only for home service, as has been mentioned, or found unfit for service at all.

On the assumption that he was lawfully married by August 1915, his liability for military service would have come up in June 1916, and medical examination would have taken place then or some time later.

[scratchy907]

Great, thanks for the information Magnumbellum

It's just a shame that I can't find any paperwork on him.

I know a lot of records were destroyed, but you would think that maybe he would have had some of his own papers referring to that time that my Aunt would have found after his death. But then again, maybe not, as none of us knew he had a wife who was not my great grandmother or that he was ever charged under the habitual drunkards act.