clk Posted 4 February , 2016 Share Posted 4 February , 2016 The original recommendation for the MC says the sap was 2000 yards south west of Morlancourt. I wonder if anyone might have a trench map showing it (DIGGER AVENUE), and as a long shot if anyone on the forum might have a photo of Lt. Cosgrove. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 4 February , 2016 Share Posted 4 February , 2016 G'day Time Crownies and your on mate Thanks for those links , there great !! You know your stuff boss !!!!! With all that great information from Tom and Chris, your Military Cross' background keeps getting better and better ! I am also pleased, you now understand that your Military Cross' measurements are perfectly correct. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 4 February , 2016 Share Posted 4 February , 2016 Chris, my TNA trench map DVD index shows it as "DiggerS" Avenue, but unfortunately there is no map. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 4 February , 2016 Share Posted 4 February , 2016 Thanks for looking Roger. BlackSeptember1918 I see that the war diary includes (as one of the appendices) a daily works report for 29th July, that records "Digging C.T. to connect front line with enemy trench". Helpfully it records map reference K.25.a.6.0 and K.25.c.70.90. The diary also includes a map (correct to 4th July) a section of which showing K25 is: Given the map co-ordinates, the sap/trench that was dug appears to be where I have circled in green on a slightly later map (from August 1918) shown below. Using the NLS website you can see by adjusting the transparency levels how the trench/area fits into the modern landscape. Hopefully the link will go through to the appropriate map. That seems to be the when, where, and why are done for the MC, but unfortunately I don't have access to Australian genealogy records to provide any background to the man himself. I did also wonder if perhaps his local newspaper might contain a photo of him around the time of his medal award. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 4 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2016 Thanks LF Chris and Roger , thanks guys ! The link worked perfectly , I need to study those maps you kindly posted . That's an awesome database . All I have is a book called " topography of Armageddon" as far as maps go so thanks so much for taking the trouble and effort to search and post that . Lionel has about 29 pages of his service record online at the aussie national archives . I've read through them several times , but I need to look at them with a more analytical eye instead of just enjoying the read . That's a good tip about trying to find out more from his home town . Always the problem for me is I live in a very remote place , but as the Internet has expanded I revisit things and sometimes find information access has improved ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Posted 5 February , 2016 Share Posted 5 February , 2016 Another fantastic example of how the Forum can pool resources and uncover the individual stories that make the study of history so fascinating. I hope that J.R. Cosgrove was availed of the medal citation or extracts from the diaries back in1962 so that he could defend his father's name. BlackSeptember1918, please keep us up to date with any further finds or photos. Regards, DJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 6 February , 2016 Share Posted 6 February , 2016 Beautiful part of the world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 6 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2016 DJM Yes isn't it quite overwhelming the help given to me on this . What can one say except ..Thank you very much all . LF really kept banging out the info and really got the ball rolling , but everyone's been great . I'm happy to confirm that J.H. Cosgrove was sent back the citation detail from his request for info . Lionel was a hardware assistant from a country town , at 22 he reinforced Gallipoli vets which must have been unnerving listening to their stories . Then he tastes battle in the hell of Fromelles , he does his duty at place names that are forever linked with the horrors of the Great War and makes officer . He spends time in hospital with a non battle related illness , but comes back and distinguishes himself in the heat of battle . Then almost 100 years on a group of learner'd gentlemen ( not me I'm a bush gold miner and have never been called either learner'd ...or a gentleman ) bring his memory to life again .... Now I wish J.H. Cosgrove could have seen that ! Oh yeah it is an R not a H ....my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 6 February , 2016 Share Posted 6 February , 2016 ( not me I'm a bush gold miner and have never been called either learner'd ...or a gentleman ) bring his memory to life again .... Now I wish J.H. Cosgrove could have seen that ! Actually, all credit goes to yourself for not giving up on your gut instincts and the strong feeling you had that there was a lot more to this Military Cross, you could easily have disregarded it and either let it go for a fraction of it's real value, or even worse ! As it is, your hunch paid off, and you are the proud owner of an excellent and valuable original Military Cross with a superbly documented history, awarded to an obviously brave man, Lt. Lionel Cosgrove. Anyone interested in WW1, would be thrilled and proud to own such a well documented Military Cross. Keep us posted should you find any further information on Lt. L. Cosgrove, and I am sure others will also continue with their research, and post it here should anything be found. Consider yourself as having mined a very, very nice nugget ! Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neale1961 Posted 6 February , 2016 Share Posted 6 February , 2016 Some family information to fill in the picture: Lionel Paul Cosgrove, born 2 June 1893 in Dubbo, NSW. Siblings: Joseph, born 1891 Richard Milne, born 1897Parents: Richard Cosgrove & Johanna "Annie" Herby were married in 1890 in Dubbo.His father was a railway guard and was killed in an accident (run over by train) in Wellington, NSW in Nov. 1899, when Lionel was 6 years old. Linel has 2 marriages recorded: 1st marriage to Lorna Downs in 1920 in Sydney, and 2nd marriage in 1926 to Thelma Jones in Ballina, NSW. Lionel Cosgrove died 15 July 1957 in Sydney. Here is an interesting newspaper titbit: Cosgrove.pdf Ps. I see that his brother Richard also served in ww1 (and ww2), and there are service papers for him at Australian national archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSeptember1918 Posted 6 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2016 Thanks Neale , that's interesting stuff mate . I had seen his mum was listed as Annie Davies on Lionel's enlistement documents and wondered about the different names , and great newspaper article ! , I think I've heard about that before somewhere ? Very interesting thank you . If I thought Lionel had a direct descendant who would care about the cross then I would give it to them . Not sure if such a person exists at this point , but if anyone works that out , let me know please . Thanks again Neale , my old man was badly hurt underground when I was about the same age as Lionel , survived by a thread . My life would be different if he hadn't ...makes you think huh . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 30 July , 2016 Share Posted 30 July , 2016 Dear GWFs, For comparison purposes and general interest, the reverse of my late grandfather's MC. He was Coy Cdr 53rd Bn AIF during the successful attack on Peronne, 1 Sep 1918 (wounded). It was a VC action (Pte Curry, 53 Bn AIF). Later CMF Lt-Col William Frederic Lindsay, MC, ED (1880-1940). Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 July , 2016 Share Posted 30 July , 2016 6 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said: Dear GWFs, For comparison purposes and general interest, the reverse of my late grandfather's MC. He was Coy Cdr 53rd Bn AIF during the successful attack on Peronne, 1 Sep 1918 (wounded). It was a VC action (Pte Curry, 53 Bn AIF). Later CMF Lt-Col William Frederic Lindsay, MC, ED (1880-1940). Kindest regards, Kim. Kim, A wonderful family treasure, and great to see it is still with the family ! ( hopefully ) Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 30 July , 2016 Share Posted 30 July , 2016 Dear LF, Many thanks for your kind words; much appreciated! Yes, indeed, both grandfather's and Dad's medal groups are in my possession (although I am only a younger son). Both were gifted amateurs, and came from the Citizen Military Force to the all-volunteer Australian Imperial Force in 1914, and the Second Australian Imperial Force in 1939. My late father had the MC GVIR (1941) and was Mentioned in Despatches (1941), so is therefore outside this forum theme. William Frederic Lindsay, born 1880, was rather overage for his rank of Lieutenant, when he went overseas in 1916 with the 6th Reinforcements to 53rd Battalion, AIF. By the time of the 1 Sep 1918 attack on Peronne, he was a Captain and Company Commander. After being wounded in the leg, his 2iC, Lieut W. Waite, MC, took over the Company: Waite being subsequently awarded a Bar to his MC. For your interest, I attach the medal group of Lt-Col W. F. Lindsay... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 30 July , 2016 Share Posted 30 July , 2016 Thoroughly enjoyed this thread, not only due to successful nature of it but also I feel I've been educated whilst entertained, pity my old school didn't think of that! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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