GregDulwich Posted 28 January , 2016 Share Posted 28 January , 2016 Does anyone know what the missing medal that hung from the group of WW1 medals might have been Its been a mystery for a long time - I am now trying to get to the bottom of it! I have a short list of 13 possibles from special British awards to 3-4 foreign possibles - but nothing conclusive and most can be dismissed Only the 2 British medals are on his medal card - no other records found The chap was a private in the RAMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 28 January , 2016 Share Posted 28 January , 2016 If you post his mame unit and service number someone might be able to help. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 28 January , 2016 Share Posted 28 January , 2016 86231 William Frederick Cooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 28 January , 2016 Share Posted 28 January , 2016 Legion d'Honneur: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Honour There was a period late in the 20th century when many surviving WW1 veterans were awarded it. The same practice has recently been done with a number of surviving Normandy veterans. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ho33eVaYdPc/hqdefault.jpg http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13525478.Normandy_veteran_dies_less_than_three_months_after_receiving_France_s_highest_decoration__the_Legion_d_Honneur_/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 28 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2016 Thanks Keith and IPT I had to reduce the photo to small otherwise it would not load yes IPT is correct as above the medals best Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 28 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2016 Many thanks Andrew The Legion D'honneur has been the first suggestion of many - but why if the medal had gone missing would the ribbon edge be straight? as LD,H attachment was not I know for sure this chap died in 1944 aged 65 (profession described as a Firewatcher and Caretaker and this remained in my family since - so unlike those WW1 vets as he was long passed away Regards Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 28 January , 2016 Share Posted 28 January , 2016 Many thanks Andrew The Legion D'honneur has been the first suggestion of many - but why if the medal had gone missing would the ribbon edge be straight? as LD,H attachment was not I know for sure this chap died in 1944 aged 65 (profession described as a Firewatcher and Caretaker and this remained in my family since - so unlike those WW1 vets as he was long passed away Someone removing the medal most likely simply cut straight across the widest part as the quickest and easiest place to do so without risking damaging the medal itself. You have to remember that it is only relatively recently that WW1 campaign medals have been considered of any particular value, whereas the L'dH would have had much higher retail value in comparison on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 29 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Thanks Andrew , Understand - but in this case the medal ribbon has not been cut and still forms an attached loop (just doesnt have anything hanging on it!!! Regards Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 29 January , 2016 Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Thanks Andrew , Understand - but in this case the medal ribbon has not been cut and still forms an attached loop (just doesnt have anything hanging on it!!! Regards Greg Knowing that at the start might have been a little bit helpful ... what does the reverse actually look like? If there is stitching there it may simply be that after the Ld'H was removed someone decided to tidy up the remaining ribbon to be presentable at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 29 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Large Photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 29 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Hi Andrew , I will try and photograph the reverse - It all looks tidy Regards Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 29 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Detail Detail Detail Detail Detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 29 January , 2016 Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Looking at the photos, my money is on Andrew's theory. It'd be great to reinstate the missing medal. They're widely available. Just ensure it's the correct period. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 29 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2016 Has anyone seen this kind of thing in a group of the same period?Best Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Hi I have been through approx. 400 of the 2098 military recipients of the L'dH on my database and the lowest rank is a 2Lt. It has always been an Officers award and I have never heard of a commonwealth OR being awarded one during WW1. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Maybe there was never a medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 30 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Hi ForeignGong Although the L'dH has always been the first suggestion of most I have doubted it as I have heard and seen that was an officers award So Im very grateful for your data base check and experience and perhaps we can put this to the 'dismissed box' now The the Serbian medals particularly Obilich remain the top suggestion for the foreign possibilities - was there a data base for them ? Thanks again Greg Thanks - Coldstreamer - yes this is a possibility - but what was it put there for that is the other side of the mystery - if not a medal ( or indeed if a medal was never attached )??????? best Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Hi Sorry, I meant to say that I do not have him at all and neither does Philip Whittingham on his roll. Could it have been some other service's long service medal ie. Fire service, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 30 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Hi ForeignGong - what do you mean - sorry I only just joined and not aware what rolls you guys have can you clarify Plus yes - fire service etc - at present still a mystery best Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Hi Greg and all Where was William born in 1879? You say the medals have remained in your family since 1944 when he died. Where did he die? Name of his N of K etc. Relationship to you? The more we can find out about him then we have a much better chance of finding out what the medal was. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Hi ForeignGong - what do you mean - sorry I only just joined and not aware what rolls you guys have can you clarify Plus yes - fire service etc - at present still a mystery best Greg Hi Greg My database has over 38 000 names of gazetted foreign awards for WW1, which I have put together over the last 14 years. I don't claim it to be 100 %, but I have not been able to add any un known gazetted awards to my list in the last three and a half years. It also includes quite a few non gazetted but confirmed awards from other sources, such as war diaries and constitutions like the Red Cross, St John etc, who were able to accept and wear without the authority of the London Gazette. All I ask is that if anyone can confirm an award that they please let me know so I can add it to my database. I live in Aussie, so am 8 hours different to most on this forum. Sorry again, I was in a hurry and did not explain myself. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 'Liverpool Shipwreck and Humane society: Fire medal'? if a Firewatcher? any Liverpool connection? or , for example .. wartime austerity with no medal, as reported here?? Society for the Protection of Life from Fire, http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/special-collections/results.php?specialcollection_id=193&layout=list&offset=24&limit=24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 31 January , 2016 Share Posted 31 January , 2016 Hi I can not find a William Frederick Cooper who died in 1944 aged 65yrs. There is a William Frederick who married a Lilian Cuttler in 1906 in Dudley, Staffs and they had a daughter Dorothy Maggie. They emigrated to Canada in 1913 and had another daughter Irene (1921 Canada Census). There are trees on Ancestry which appear to have the wrong details re Dorothy Maggie and the dates/names of her parents' marriage. The other William Frederick George had 4 children but there are only two with William F on the 1921 census. The other children would be too young to leave. They left Liverpool on the Corsican and arrived in Quebec on 1st August, 1913. Frederick William aged 34, Lilian 27 and Dorothy 4yrs. He was an Engineer and was looking for "Anything" as his work in Canada in Toronto. William F Cooper b.1879 Rowley Regis, Staffs, is on the 1891 census under the name William F Edwards, as are the rest of his family, he had a younger sister Maggie.Although on the 1901 census his name is Frederick William... PERHAPS.......this is him and the missing medal was kept in Canada and the others kept in England......CONFUSED TO SAY THE LEAST!!! If it's not him......... Kept me busy anyway. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 31 January , 2016 Share Posted 31 January , 2016 Great thread this...... I love a mystery................ My money is on the Legion d'Honneur: Look closely at the pattern on the Ribbon......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregDulwich Posted 31 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2016 Well thats some interesting feedback - many thanks to all for your help on this yes this mystery is somewhat more interesting than those straightforward medals with ribbons that are perhaps easier to find out about I will respond with all I have Gents later today best Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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