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GregDulwich

MISSING MEDAL

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GregDulwich

Does anyone know what the missing medal that hung from the group of WW1 medals might have been


Its been a mystery for a long time - I am now trying to get to the bottom of it!


I have a short list of 13 possibles from special British awards to 3-4 foreign possibles - but nothing conclusive and most can be dismissed


Only the 2 British medals are on his medal card - no other records found



The chap was a private in the RAMC


post-126594-0-10743800-1453998426_thumb.

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keithmroberts

If you post his mame unit and service number someone might be able to help.

Keith

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IPT

86231 William Frederick Cooper

:thumbsup:

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Andrew Upton

Legion d'Honneur:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Honour

There was a period late in the 20th century when many surviving WW1 veterans were awarded it. The same practice has recently been done with a number of surviving Normandy veterans.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ho33eVaYdPc/hqdefault.jpg

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/13525478.Normandy_veteran_dies_less_than_three_months_after_receiving_France_s_highest_decoration__the_Legion_d_Honneur_/

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GregDulwich

Thanks Keith and IPT

I had to reduce the photo to small otherwise it would not load

yes IPT is correct as above the medals

best Greg

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GregDulwich

Many thanks Andrew

The Legion D'honneur has been the first suggestion of many - but why if the medal had gone missing would the ribbon edge be straight? as LD,H attachment was not

I know for sure this chap died in 1944 aged 65 (profession described as a Firewatcher and Caretaker and this remained in my family since - so unlike those WW1 vets as he was long passed away

Regards

Greg

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Andrew Upton

Many thanks Andrew

The Legion D'honneur has been the first suggestion of many - but why if the medal had gone missing would the ribbon edge be straight? as LD,H attachment was not

I know for sure this chap died in 1944 aged 65 (profession described as a Firewatcher and Caretaker and this remained in my family since - so unlike those WW1 vets as he was long passed away

Someone removing the medal most likely simply cut straight across the widest part as the quickest and easiest place to do so without risking damaging the medal itself. You have to remember that it is only relatively recently that WW1 campaign medals have been considered of any particular value, whereas the L'dH would have had much higher retail value in comparison on its own.

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GregDulwich

Thanks Andrew ,

Understand - but in this case the medal ribbon has not been cut and still forms an attached loop (just doesnt have anything hanging on it!!!

Regards

Greg

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Andrew Upton

Thanks Andrew ,

Understand - but in this case the medal ribbon has not been cut and still forms an attached loop (just doesnt have anything hanging on it!!!

Regards

Greg

Knowing that at the start might have been a little bit helpful :rolleyes:... what does the reverse actually look like? If there is stitching there it may simply be that after the Ld'H was removed someone decided to tidy up the remaining ribbon to be presentable at least.

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GregDulwich

Hi Andrew ,

I will try and photograph the reverse - It all looks tidy

Regards

Greg

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GregDulwich

post-126594-0-33240400-1454082912_thumb.

Detail


post-126594-0-33063400-1454082991_thumb.

Detail


post-126594-0-79062200-1454083053_thumb.

Detail


post-126594-0-83569100-1454083118_thumb.

Detail


post-126594-0-62261200-1454083168_thumb.

Detail

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depaor01

Looking at the photos, my money is on Andrew's theory. It'd be great to reinstate the missing medal. They're widely available. Just ensure it's the correct period.

Dave

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GregDulwich
Has anyone seen this kind of thing in a group of the same period?

Best Greg

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ForeignGong

Hi

I have been through approx. 400 of the 2098 military recipients of the L'dH on my database and the lowest rank is a 2Lt. It has always been an Officers award and I have never heard of a commonwealth OR being awarded one during WW1.

Peter

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Coldstreamer

Maybe there was never a medal?

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GregDulwich

Hi ForeignGong

Although the L'dH has always been the first suggestion of most I have doubted it as I have heard and seen that was an officers award

So Im very grateful for your data base check and experience and perhaps we can put this to the 'dismissed box' now

The the Serbian medals particularly Obilich remain the top suggestion for the foreign possibilities - was there a data base for them ?

Thanks again

Greg

Thanks - Coldstreamer - yes this is a possibility - but what was it put there for that is the other side of the mystery - if not a medal ( or indeed if a medal was never attached )??????? best Greg

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ForeignGong

Hi

Sorry, I meant to say that I do not have him at all and neither does Philip Whittingham on his roll.

Could it have been some other service's long service medal ie. Fire service, etc.

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GregDulwich

Hi ForeignGong - what do you mean - sorry I only just joined and not aware what rolls you guys have

can you clarify

Plus yes - fire service etc - at present still a mystery

best Greg

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The Inspector

Hi Greg and all

Where was William born in 1879? You say the medals have remained in your family since 1944 when he died. Where did he die? Name of his N of K etc. Relationship to you?

The more we can find out about him then we have a much better chance of finding out what the medal was.

Regards Barry

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ForeignGong

Hi ForeignGong - what do you mean - sorry I only just joined and not aware what rolls you guys have

can you clarify

Plus yes - fire service etc - at present still a mystery

best Greg

Hi Greg

My database has over 38 000 names of gazetted foreign awards for WW1, which I have put together over the last 14 years. I don't claim it to be 100 %, but I have not been able to add any un known gazetted awards to my list in the last three and a half years. It also includes quite a few non gazetted but confirmed awards from other sources, such as war diaries and constitutions like the Red Cross, St John etc, who were able to accept and wear without the authority of the London Gazette.

All I ask is that if anyone can confirm an award that they please let me know so I can add it to my database.

I live in Aussie, so am 8 hours different to most on this forum.

Sorry again, I was in a hurry and did not explain myself.

Peter

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battiscombe

'Liverpool Shipwreck and Humane society: Fire medal'? if a Firewatcher? any Liverpool connection?

or , for example .. wartime austerity with no medal, as reported here?? Society for the Protection of Life from Fire,

http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/special-collections/results.php?specialcollection_id=193&layout=list&offset=24&limit=24

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The Inspector

Hi

I can not find a William Frederick Cooper who died in 1944 aged 65yrs. There is a William Frederick who married a Lilian Cuttler in 1906 in Dudley, Staffs and they had a daughter Dorothy Maggie. They emigrated to Canada in 1913 and had another daughter Irene (1921 Canada Census). There are trees on Ancestry which appear to have the wrong details re Dorothy Maggie and the dates/names of her parents' marriage. The other William Frederick George had 4 children but there are only two with William F on the 1921 census. The other children would be too young to leave.

They left Liverpool on the Corsican and arrived in Quebec on 1st August, 1913. Frederick William aged 34, Lilian 27 and Dorothy 4yrs. He was an Engineer and was looking for "Anything" as his work in Canada in Toronto.

William F Cooper b.1879 Rowley Regis, Staffs, is on the 1891 census under the name William F Edwards, as are the rest of his family, he had a younger sister Maggie.Although on the 1901 census his name is Frederick William...

PERHAPS.......this is him and the missing medal was kept in Canada and the others kept in England......CONFUSED TO SAY THE LEAST!!! If it's not him.........

Kept me busy anyway.

Regards Barry

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Kitchener's Bugle

Great thread this...... I love a mystery................ :w00t:

My money is on the Legion d'Honneur:

Look closely at the pattern on the Ribbon.........

post-91995-0-72462800-1454209774_thumb.p

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GregDulwich

Well thats some interesting feedback - many thanks to all for your help on this

yes this mystery is somewhat more interesting than those straightforward medals with ribbons that are perhaps easier to find out about

I will respond with all I have Gents later today

best Greg

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