Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
Sunbird

48 Field Ambulance

Recommended Posts

Sunbird

Researching a medical officer who was in 48th Field Ambulance during 1916. A week before start of the Battle of The Somme he was transferred from 48th Field Ambulance to 6th Bn. Bedfordshire Regiment as Medical Officer. I have found (thanks Charlie) plenty of references to him in the Field Ambulance diaries. Now he has moved to the 6th Beds Battalion I have found nothing. Also a week later the 6th Beds. as part of 112th Brigade moved to the 34th Division. His own diary becomes quite hazy from here on and it is difficult to know where or who he is attached to.

The Brigades that moved to the 34th Div. (111th and 112th) returned to 37th Div. 22/8/16 but no mention of him (AF Elliott) after that date in with of the 37th Div. Field Ambulance diaries.

His diary continues until 22/12/16. and he was involved in the Battle of Ancre.

Any help gratefully received.

CE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunbird

Further to the above, I have now cross referenced AFE's diary (movements) with the 6th Beds war diary (movements) for the period 5/7/16 to 22/12/16 and they match up. So I now pressure he did stay with the 6th Beds as MO and then his diary ends with him taking leave 22/12/16.

Having the 50th Ambulance diary (as well as the other 37th Div. Ambulance diaries) I scanned the pages for early 1917 and sure enough AFE pops up now as a captain returning from leave on 17th Jan 1917. This is quite exciting as we thought he ended his service at the end of 1916.

He is mentioned quite a bit in the 50th FA diary over the next few months, and on 5th May 1917:

Capt. A.F. Elliott (T.C.) posted to A.D.M.S. ABBEVILLE for duty and is struck of the strength accordingly.

This begs the question what did he do next? Did the ADMS departments keep diaries, or records which would mention AFE's arrival and possible subsequent service?

Many thanks

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clk

Hi Chris,

The diary for the ADMS, 37 Division is available from the National Archives or, on Ancestry. There's an interesting entry for 4th May 1917 which reads:

"...Had interview with O.C. 50th Fld Ambulance relative to the neglect of patients which I brought to his notice at my visit to the F.A. at 12 noon yesterday..."

Regards

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunbird

Hi Chris,

The diary for the ADMS, 37 Division is available from the National Archives or, on Ancestry. There's an interesting entry for 4th May 1917 which reads:

"...Had interview with O.C. 50th Fld Ambulance relative to the neglect of patients which I brought to his notice at my visit to the F.A. at 12 noon yesterday..."

Regards

Chris

Hi Chris, thank you so much for this. It is very exciting to find this out as my father and grandfather never mentioned my great grandfather's continued service into 1917.

Last night I read a report he wrote 13/04/1917 about problems evacuating casualties from his aid post west of Arras 09/04/1917. The report is in the 50FA diary / April 1917 / appendix 4.

That he actually wrote this and we find it, download and read it is simply amazing and a credit to everyone who assists those trying to discover all this.

Thank you again.

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunbird

I thought I would find a mention of AFE in the 37th ADMS diary where I presumed he was posted, but it seems he did not go there.

Re-reading the last mention of him in 50th FA diary:

Capt. A.F. Elliott (T.C.) posted to A.D.M.S. ABBEVILLE for duty and is struck of the strength accordingly.

the clue is 'ADMS ABBEVILLE', and I guess that was not a Divisional ADMS but possibly a base hospital ADMS.

What was ADMS ABBEVILLE?

Did they keep a diary or log of personnel joining / leaving?

Many thanks,

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
clk

At the time the Assistant Director Medical Services (37th Division) was based at Lignereuil, which I think is about 35 miles away from Abbeville. Utter speculation on my part, but I did wonder if following the "interview" that the O.C. 50th Field Ambulance had with the ADMS the previous day, whether Captain Elliott took the blame, was moved sideways to another division, and then allocated further duties.

He should have an officer file at the National Archives, or (if he continued his service after the war) with the MoD.

Regards

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunbird

Thank you Chris,that's an interesting point and it did cross my mind given the timing of events.

I'm not that great at searching NA without the correct file numbers etc, once I know that I'm fine, so apologies but, how do I search for an Officer file?

I have read the OC 50FA diary account of First Battle of Scarpe 9 - 14 April 1917, and it would seem that he was unaware there was a problem until after AFE had cleared his Aid Post with the help of cavalry ambulances, having sent many messages with runners. The OC 50FA seems to blame the MAC and threatens to report them to GOC if they are not moving within an hour at one point.

Timeline of the events:

9-12 April 1917 Battle of Scarpe. AFE has an aid post for the 8th E Lancs / 112th on the right hand side of the line.

13/4/17 In 50FA diary AFE is documented as returning to 50FA from temp duty with 8th E Lancs, and it is mentioned that AFE had difficulty with getting stretchers away and casualty congestion because of lack of bearers. AFE's report of this to ADMS 37 Div. of 14/4/17 is included as an appendix (4) to the 50FA April diary.

5/5/17 Capt. A.F. Elliott (T.C.) posted to A.D.M.S. ABBEVILLE for duty and is struck of the strength accordingly.

Thank you again

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BJanman

It is highly unlikely that you will find a service record as the personal files of all the doctors who took up temporary commissions in the RAMC are missing, presumed to have been destroyed.



The ADMS Abberville came under the command of the DMS on the Lines of Communication. If Capt Elliott was posted there then it is unlikely he would have gone to another Division - not at that time anyway. The ADMS for Abberville would have done the same work as the ADsMS for Divisions, that is oversee the medical units in his area, i.e. CCSs/hospitals or associated medical units etc.



Have you checked the war diaries on the National Archive website? The list can be found here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=director+of+medical+services&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+95&_col=200&_hb=tna



If you are unable to find a war diary for the ADMS Abberville then you could try the war diary for the DMS Line of Communication. I've seen some on the list - they appear to be monthly reports, but I haven’t read one so cannot advise what information they will give you - could point you in the right direction though. You can find some from page 30 onwards but it doesn’t look as if they are digitalized yet. Alternatively you could search the war diaries of the medical units in the area to see if Capt Elliott’s name appears. A long shot but you never know...



Good luck



Barbara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunbird

Thank you so much Barbara,

Yes I drew a blank from the Service Records at National Archive. And yes as a last resort I would consider researching all divisional and (don't know if this the correct term) base hospital ADMS diaries, along with the divisional field ambulance diaries to see if he reappears.

The OC 50FA uses the name/language ADMS ABBEVILLE i.e.. a town some distance from the area 37Div are currently located in. Was this ADMS a 'divisional' one, such as ADMS 37th Division: a fighting unit, or an ADMS connected to a 'base' (hospital)? Was there a distinction between the two?

(In brief for benefit of a new reader)

Capt Elliott RAMC index card says 'retired Nov 1917'. His son, in his short biog of Capt Elliott states he was injured in some way during the war. I have Capt Elliott's own war diary (www.afelliott.com ongoing) up to Dec 1916, after which I have followed his army service through 37 Div / 50 Field Ambulance diaries. As of 5 May 1917 he disappears to ADMS Abbeville.

Barbara if you could point me in the direction of DMS Line Of Communication I would be very grateful.

Thank you

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BJanman

Assistant Director of Medical Service was part of a hierarchy of positions held in office. There were DsMS of Armies, then DDsMS of Corps, then ADsMS of Divisions - that is going forward to the front lines. Then there was also a DMS on the Line of Communication and DDsMS and ADsMS going the other way back to the ports. There was an ADMS at Etaples, an ADMS at Calais, at Dieppe, at Havre etc. There is a map in the Official History which may explain it better here:- https://archive.org/stream/medicalservicesg02macp#page/n31/mode/1up


The ADMS of Abbeville wouldn’t have had any dealing with the medical units attached to the Divisions. I hope that makes sense.




I’ve managed to narrow the National Archive search down to L of C services here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_col=200&_cr1=WO+95&_ps=15&_hb=tna&_srt=4&_q=director+of+medical+services+lines+of+communication



I cannot see one for Abberille though. If you check the ones with the heading: Headquarter Branches and Services, then in the text it states “Lines of Communication” - these are the Director of Medical Service war diary. I’ve found


1st May 1917 - 30 June 1917 - WO 95/3980/5


August 1917 - WO 95/3980/1


1st October 1917 - 30th November 1917 - WO 95/391/1



I didn’t see July or September but I’m sure they are there somewhere. These are the dates that Capt Elliott would have been around there.



Really hope it helps. If not then maybe you could contact the National Archives and ask if they can help track down the ADMS war diary for Abbeville.



Regards



Barbara


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sunbird

Barbara, thank you again.

I initially tried to find the documents you listed on Ancestry but this search brought up masses of diaries, mainly divisional ADSM diaries. So I download the first Lines Of Communication diary (W/O 95/3980/5) from NA which gave no sign of Capt. Elliott being appointed anywhere. The only appointments mentioned are for high up appointments such as those in charge of a Stationary Hospital or ADMS / DADMS to a base.

So I think next step is to try and find ADMS Abbeville diary for May - Nov 1917.

Also I will go through the field ambulance diaries for the month of May 1917 for France just in case he was reassigned from Abbeville straight away. These are easy to find on Ancestry.

Once again many thanks,

Chris

At the time the Assistant Director Medical Services (37th Division) was based at Lignereuil, which I think is about 35 miles away from Abbeville. Utter speculation on my part, but I did wonder if following the "interview" that the O.C. 50th Field Ambulance had with the ADMS the previous day, whether Captain Elliott took the blame, was moved sideways to another division, and then allocated further duties.

He should have an officer file at the National Archives, or (if he continued his service after the war) with the MoD.

Regards

Chris

Thank you Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...