Term 'The Great War' - When did it start & end ?

[jonathanb2701]

In reference to describing the First World War,

when did the term 'The Great War' come into existence ?

and when did 'The Great War' cease to be known as 'The Great War' and become known as the First World War ?

[Steven Broomfield]

To answer your second question, so far as I'm concerned it still is The Great War.

I think the first question has been discussed before, but I can't recall the outcome.

[Guest]

The term "First World War" obviously became more common after WWII.

I believe in Oct 1914 the expression "Great War" was the first recorded use to describe the 1914-1919 conflict by a Canadian journal.

The vast majority of British unit histories written between 1918 and the mid 1930s used "Great War" in their titles rather than First World War obviously due to the fact that WWII had not then happened. A small number used "World War". The few (official) unit histories written after WWII still preferred "Great War". I think academia still prefers "Great War" but the modern media is split. Notably organisations such as the BBC use "First World War". The British Official History (first draft 1922) simply described it as the War.

This is a British perspective. Different countries have different views depending on the outcomes and casualties.

MG

[Kitchener's Bugle]

During the war itself the terms ‘Great War’ or ‘European War’ were used commonly as indicated F. H. Simonds 1914 publication ‘The Great War‘ which set out to recount the conflict in a series of phases. ‘World War’ was also used having parallels with German ‘der Weltkrieg’, where, interestingly enough, they also termed it the ‘time of greatness’. During the war itself, ‘European War’ was also suggested but as the conflict now encompassed Africa and the Middle-East this again was insufficient. Indeed, Charles Repington writing for The Morning Post recorded a conversation where he struggled with the correct term – The War, The Great War, and The German War.

British Officer Lieutenant-Colonel Charles à Court Repington recorded in his diary for 10 Sep 1918 that he met with a Major Johnstone of Harvard University to discuss what historians should call the war. Repington said it was then referred to as The War, 'but that this could not last'. They agreed that 'To call it The German War was too much flattery for the Boche.' Repington concludes: 'I suggested The World War as a shade better title, and finally we mutually agreed to call it The First World War in order to prevent the millennium folk from forgetting that the history of the world was the history of war.' Between the wars most people did refer to the war as the Great War, even though that had originally referred to the Napoleonic War. In the US, it was ‘The World War’.

[IPT]

A quick search on the British Newspaper Archive shows that the term was in use prior to the outbreak of war, (for example "Great War in Sight" on 1st August 1914. Within a week, it was a common headline for news of events.

[Guest]

The expression 'great war' was used in a generic sense in parliament for decades prior to 1914 to describe an expected large scale conflict. The earliest reference to the War of 1914-1919 as a 'great war' in British Parliament as recorded in the House of Commons debates in Hansard was on 6th Aug 1914. By November 1914 Hansard was recording Great War in dozens of debates.

It was a generic term in common use prior to 1914 that was applied specifically to the conflict from the very start. MG

[jonathanb2701]

Thanks to all the contributors to this post.

As noted the term 'First World War' would have started to take precedence after 1945.

However 'The Great War' still strikes a chord with the general public, due to their familiarity with its naming as such on War Memorials

throughout the country.

[SiegeGunner]

References after 1918 were often to 'the late War', as in 'Major Fox, who served with distinction in the late War'.

[Moonraker]

Some earlier threads, found by searching for "Repington", who usually features in discussions on this subject:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=194333&hl=repington#entry1902248

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=173720&hl=repington#entry1688111

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96029&hl=repington

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34894&hl=repington#entry281681

Moonraker

[Old Tom]

As to it's end date, some argue that to be 1945 at the earliest.

Old Tom

[Moonraker]

The end date was briefly discussed almost eleven years ago

here

Moonraker

[Uncle George]

I lived with my Grandmother (who was born in 1902) throughout my childhood. She wouldn't speak of 'the Great War', or of 'World War One', or of 'the First World War'. No: she referred to either 'the First war'; or to 'the Second war'.

She had three brothers who served in the First war; another brother and her husband, my Grandfather (who died before I was born) served in the Second war. Her nephew was killed at Anzio. Her generation could I think be said to have been defined by those wars.

I heard her say on a number if occasions, of Germany: "They'd fight us again, if they could."

[Moonraker]

I've only just noticed this banner title on another WWI Forum:

Canadian Expeditionary Force Study Group

Dedicated to the Study of the Canadian Expeditionary Force

The Great War of 1914 - 1921

Slightly unusual dating.

Moonraker

EDIT: Just realised that this probably reflects the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's listing of interments up to the end of 1921.

[Steven Broomfield]

Intervention in Russia?

[ss002d6252]

If I remember correctly, In or around 1921 there was an act of parliament which formally halted hostilities which had begun in 1914. (something in my head says 'cessation of hostilities act' but I may be wrong)

A list of various treaties & conventions is listed here - http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Conventions_and_Treaties.

Craig

[Moonraker]

The thread

that I started on this topic on the CEF Study Group Forum.

Moonraker

[laughton]

Correct, the war officially ended on August 31,1921 when Britain passed legislation officially declaring the war to be over. It was that legislation that cancelled the declaration of war of August 4,1914.

[ss002d6252]

Correct, the war officially ended on August 31,1921 when Britain passed legislation officially declaring the war to be over. It was that legislation that cancelled the declaration of war of August 4,1914.

Thanks

Craig

[Moonraker]

Andover War Memorial bears the names of 213 men who fell in the Great War which, unusually, it dates as 1914-1920. This reflects the service of the Hampshire Regiment in Murmansk in Russia after the official end of the First World War, where it saw action with anti-Bolshevik forces.

Moonraker

[charlesmessenger]

I have been told that the term Great War is now non-PC, since 'Great' could imply 'Marvellous'. What would we do without the ivory towers of academe?

Charles M

[laughton]

Tell the ivory towers that "marvellous" is not a synonym. I guess we have to rename it then? Pick your favourite:

big

considerable

enormous

extreme

high

huge

immense

strong

terrible

tremendous

vast

bull

fat

husky

mammoth

abundant

ample

big league

bulky

colossal

decided

excessive

extended

extensive

extravagant

gigantic

humongous

inordinate

jumbo

lengthy

long

major league

mondo

numerous

oversize

prodigious

prolonged

pronounced

protracted

stupendous

titanic

towering

voluminous

[mrfish]

Andover War Memorial bears the names of 213 men who fell in the Great War which, unusually, it dates as 1914-1920. This reflects the service of the Hampshire Regiment in Murmansk in Russia after the official end of the First World War, where it saw action with anti-Bolshevik forces.

Moonraker

The information quoted about about the dates on Andover cenotaph reflecting the Hampshire Regiment and North Russia was begun by a local historian in an article for the local history magazine a few years ago and has since been widely repeated in histories of the town, and online. Sadly it is not true.

"In recent years there has been some debate as to the reason why [Andover] memorial bears the dates 1914-1920, rather than the more conventional 1914-1918. The reason often stated, but which is factually incorrect, is that it reflects of the Hampshire Regiment’s involvement in the North Russian Campaign in 1920, when men from Andover fought and died with the county regiment.

Two units of the Hampshires did indeed go to Russia in 1919, the 2nd and 1/9th (Cyclist) Battalions, helping the White Russians fight against Bolshevik forces. However, both battalions were back in England before the end of the year, returning on 6 October and 5 December 1919, respectively. No unit of the Hampshire Regiment served in North Russia in 1920, and indeed no Andoverians serving with those units died during the campaign. The town did, however, suffer one casualty in Russia, William Brown of South Street. He was serving with the 46th Battalion Royal Fusiliers when he was killed in action near Troitza on 10 August 1919.

The actual reason for the dates 1914-1920 is rather less glorious than that previously claimed. The dates simply reflect the years in which the town suffered casualties directly attributable to the war, the final man to die being Reginald Frank Bashford Robbins of the Royal Engineers, who succumbed to the effects of Spanish flu on 7 February 1920."

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