brummell Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 William Clarence Hayden served in the HAC. He joined on 29 March 1897, was commissioned from Serjeant on 26 August 1914, and was killed on 19 September 1915. This makes 18 years, 4 months and 22 days of service. His headstone and CWGC records state that he held the Long Service Medal. I am trying to pin down exactly what medal it was. He worked for his father's furriers business, so I don't think it could be a civil award (not that I'm entirely sure there were any called the LSM at this time anyway). However, if it was a military award, then surely by the time he had enough qualifying service he would have been awarded the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal? Can anyone please shed any light on what this medal was? - brummell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 Always presuming he continued to serve with the HAC, he would have been entitled to the Territorial Force Effeciency Medal after 12 years service in 1909. The medals awarded to the HAC had a special HAC ribbon half blue, half scarlet with yellow edges. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummell Posted 16 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2015 Charlie, That's what I suspect. But, if he qualified under the new, reduced criteria for the TF Efficiency Medal, is it likely that he would still have been awarded the superseded Volunteer Long Service Medal? - brummell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 if he was commissioned before doing his allotted time then he wouldn't have got the army LSGC - the rules on this changed after ww1 to allow medals to be awarded to men who where commissioned from the ranks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 The Volunteer LSGC medal was discontinued in 1908 so I would say no, but there exceptions to every rule. Have got his MiC? The medal should be entered on it. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummell Posted 16 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2015 The MIC is not particularly illuminating. Right at the top, it refers to a clasp, but the scan is not very clear and all but 'clasp' is illegible to me. Further down it gives the roll details of the clasp issue. Any ideas what clasp it might be? There is no mention of any LSM or similar. As an aside, there is nothing entered for the Star, which I would have thought he'd be entitled to? He disembarked with the rest of the HAC on 18 September 1914...? Thanks for the help thus far. - brummell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 He has 2 MiCs, 1 for his TFEM and one for his other medals http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=W&_ln=Hayden&_no=&_crp=Honourable&_ttl=&discoveryCustomSearch=true&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna It seems to me that there may be/has been a third MiC for a Star, which I would presume to be the 1914 Star. It is common for the Star to be on one card and the BWM and VM on another. The clasp would be for his 1914 Star. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 this happens when the spelling of the surname varies - ie HAYDEN becomes HAYDON that sort of thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 16 December , 2015 Share Posted 16 December , 2015 If you look at his MIC on Ancestry http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000714-00447/813882?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dMedalRolls%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dW%2bc%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dHayden%26gsln_x%3d1%26_F00061C3%3dHonourable%26_F00061C3_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d-1%26uidh%3dqoe&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults you'll see under "Roll on which included if any" in the top right a medal roll ref "OFF/197/3" this is different than his BWM & VM which is "OFF/33/29 so it's probably for the 14 Star. Ancestry also shows the other side of the MIC which states "O/C inf rec London forwards roll of officers eligible for 1 /HAC eligible for 1914 star"(exact quote), it also gives the address where the medals were sent. He also has 3 Medal Roll entries on Ancestry if you look them up http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=IWOServiceMedalAwardRolls&gss=sfs28_ms_db&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gsfn=W%20c&gsfn_x=1&gsln=Hayden&gsln_x=1&_F00061C3=Honourable&_F00061C3_x=1&MSAV=-1&uidh=qoe I'd surmise 14 Star, BWM & VM and TFWM. Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummell Posted 16 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2015 Of course - two (at least) MICs. I had stupidly ignored the LCpl Hayden card, thinking it must be for another man. Thanks for pointing this out, Charlie. Also thanks very much, Sam, for the info from Ancestry. - brummell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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